Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dusty Kilmore


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the nomination was Speedy redirected by the author's creater, User:Sparkyfry. Stifle (talk) 19:23, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Dusty Kilmore
Google searches for "Dusty Kilmore" and "Minnesota Twins Dusty Kilmore" turns up no results. Article seems to be written as a possible joke, non-notable term regardless. Wildthing61476 21:45, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You are incorrect. This term was actually used by Twins fans.  Twins television broadcasters (Dick Bremer and Bert Blyleven) liked to talk about it in particular.  I am not sure I am spelling the term correctly and was planning on making redirect links to possible alternate spellings (mainly "Dusty Kielmohr").  Actually, I just did a Google search for that spelling, and found numerous hits.  See: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dusty+kielmohr .  I will recreate the article under that spelling. Sparkyfry 21:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Dusty Kilmore lives! This is great, as a huge Twins fan, I just want to say that this is exactly the kind of thing I come to Wikipedia looking for, history that can not be found anyshere else. This is for real, it was a major part of a highly rated baseball telecast in a major market for an entire season. Great job Sparkyfry! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.29.240.140 (talk • contribs) 6 July 2006.
 * Delete, fancruft. --Ezeu 23:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Note User:Sparkyfry has created the page Dusty Kielmohr and turned Dusty Kilmore into a redirect. --DaveG12345 02:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Surely this is now a prime Delete Dusty Kilmore & Redirect Dusty Kielmohr to Bobby Kielty case? Quite rare, but when they come up, I'm ready for them. --DaveG12345 02:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with a few things. First, this article is not "fancruft". The term "Dusty Kielmohr" was used by a large number of baseball fans in the Twin Cities, who were closely following the local Major League Baseball team as it pursued a pennant (which it won). The Google link I cited above demonstrates this. There are all sorts of articles on obscure occurrences in Major League Baseball, whether it involves the Twins' Circle Me, Bert phenomenon or Steve Bartman's unfortunate day at a Cubs game. These events are important to baseball fans in their respective markets, and there are thousands upon thousands of such fans.

I wrote this article specifically because I was chatting with somebody the other day, and he used the term "Dusty Kielmohr." I remembered the term, but couldn't remember what it meant. This is exactly the sort of situation where Wikipedia can come in useful. To be sure, it's trivial, but so is a lot of the stuff on here. Unlike fancruft, I researched the article before writing to ensure the accuracy of the statistics (i.e., combined batting average, home runs, etc.) and facts (i.e., who was traded for whom on what date). I wrote it in a tongue-in-cheek fashion, but that is a stylistic choice that other writers can change if they so desire. (It seemed appropriate for a piece of baseball trivia.) It doesn't detract from the value of having the article in the first place. The only thing I got wrong was the spelling of the term. (It's a term coined by local sportswriters, so it's not something with a proper dictionary spelling anyway.)  Other people could likely make the same spelling mistake, so it seems reasonable to have a redirect link from the other spelling.

Second, I do not think it is appropriate to link this article to Bobby Kielty, any more than it is appropriate to Dustan Mohr. The term "Dusty Kielmohr" was used specifically to refer to *both* players, and not one or the other. It might be appropriate to have a link to the Dusty Kielmohr article on both Dustan Mohr's Wikipedia page and Bobby Kielty's Wikipedia page, or to have a link to both of those pages from this one, but not an entire redirect.

Dusty Kielmohr is a legitimate piece of Twins baseball history and deserves a Wikipedia article. Sparkyfry 02:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment There seems to be a lot of these fan-based Twins references, including Soul Patrol (baseball), which you don't mention above, and which itself alludes to Dusty Kielmohr. Since these are just fans' colloquialisms for this or that set of their own players (jeez, the sports teams I support, there have been hundreds of these names over the years), using a redirect to the relevant article involving either the team itself or the players themselves (wikilink to one, make the assertion about the naming convention plus links to the other articles from there) surely makes more sense than having these spurious articles everywhere duplicating information? Other than the yoking together of players under a temporary soubriquet, these names say nothing that can't be handled in the players' own articles IMO. It strikes me as a bit odd that this is apparently a very important name, and yet it gets only 15 Google hits, and the Bobby Kielty and Dustan Mohr pages currently don't reference each other or this name at all. --DaveG12345 03:38, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * First off, I never claimed that Dusty Kielmore was "a very important name." Few people would attempt to argue that the contributions of Dustan Mohr and Bobby Kielty to the Twins franchise rival those of Kirby Puckett or Harmon Killebrew.  I certainly wouldn't.  What I did say is that it is a *legitimate* part of recent Twins history.  It was a term many people who followed the team used, and as such, is part of the history of things associated with the team.  Neither would I describe these terms as simply "fan-based."  The terms were of course used by fans, but this is primarily because the local sports media -- I'm talking about major networks and newspapers, not fanzines -- were strong advocates of the terms, writing articles about them and discussing them on TV.  I don't have access to Lexis Nexis, but I bet a search of "Soul Patrol" or "Dusty Kielmore" would turn up several stories in the Minnepaolis and St. Paul papers.  Finally, giving a nickname to a group of players on one team is not a quaint practice used up here in the backwards Upper Midwest, but is commonplace in our sports-obsessed nation.  This practice is reflected in Wikipedia articles such as Murderers' Row, Purple People Eaters, The Four Horsemen, Monsters of the Midway, Steel Curtain, The Hogs, etc.  Dusty Kielmore may not compare to these legendary groups of athletes, but being a recognized, major-league entity certainly makes them worthy of a short article on Wikipedia.  And a redirect wouldn't work for such a group, because the group is distinct from the individual players.  It doesn't seem particularly remarkable that neither Kielty's nor Mohr's pages reference Dusty Kielmore, but I imagine it will happen with time.  If it's truly that important to you, I'll add it myself.  Oh, and your mention of the Soul Patrol was interesting.  (I should add that I wrote that article as well.)  I think team followers (including the media) liked having a nickname for the outfield so much, that they attempted to replicate the feeling by creating the hybrid Dusty Kielmore.  Obviously, it didn't have the staying power of the Soul Patrol. Sparkyfry 05:10, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.