Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dusty Mancinelli


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  12:03, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Dusty Mancinelli

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Completely unsourced WP:BLP of a filmmaker, which just states that he exists and doesn't even attempt to demonstrate that he would pass WP:CREATIVE. As always, filmmakers are not automatically entitled to have Wikipedia articles just it's technically possible to verify that their work exists -- he would need to have a stronger notability claim (e.g. an Oscar or a Canadian Screen Award) under his belt, and/or enough critical attention being paid to his films in published media to get him over WP:GNG. As always, no prejudice against recreation in the future if and when he has a stronger notability claim, and better sourcing for it, than this -- but simply being able to list a filmography and support it with an IMDb link is not automatically enough in and of itself. Bearcat (talk) 21:10, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Bearcat (talk) 21:10, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions. Bearcat (talk) 21:10, 6 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete This article has existed for 11 years with its only sourced being the non-reliable IMDb. Wikipedia needs to stop being an IMDb mirror.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:04, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I have revised the article with refs. Could you please review? Alaney2k (talk) 14:16, 10 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Consider Google is showing 12,900 results for a search on "Dusty Mancinelli". It also appears that several movies of his were shown at TIFF. He also appears to have won an award at Sundance. I think this was simply a forgotten/ignored article. I will take a look at those results to see if they are routine/trivial or not. I will start adding some of the non-trivial references. Alaney2k (talk) 13:28, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Just having movies shown at a film festival is not, in and of itself, a notability criterion for a filmmaker — no matter what film festivals a film may have been screened at, the filmmaker's notability still hinges on the degree to which the films did or didn't get published reviews from professional film critics. And he didn't win an award at Sundance, he won an award at Slamdance (which is not the same thing). But all film festival awards are not created equal when it comes to securing the notability of a filmmaker — awards at top-tier film festivals like TIFF, Berlin, Cannes or Sundance would nail it, while awards at lesser film festivals like Yorkton or Slamdance don't count for nearly as much. And finally, his number of hits is going to be disproportionately inflated right now, because he does have a film in the upcoming TIFF lineup, and so his name appears in coverage of the overall lineup announcement — but because of my first point about how simply being at the festival doesn't secure a filmmaker's notability all by itself, the current TIFF doesn't secure Mancinelli's notability all by itself. Bearcat (talk) 13:47, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I will take that into consideration as I work on the article. I think I am leaning to keep based on what I have found in only one half-hour. Alaney2k (talk) 14:29, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, you do realize that almost everything you've added to the article so far is a primary source that is not support for notability, right? Even if you're working with the idea that having a film be an "official selection" of a film festival should be an automatic notability freebie in and of itself, the film festival's own self-published online catalogue of its own film lineup is not the sourcing you need to get there — you need media to pick up the story and have a journalist re-report it as news, not sources that are directly affiliated with the claim, to turn anything into a basis for notability. Bearcat (talk) 17:57, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think you need to put words in my mouth. I will take your comments in mind as I work on it. Alaney2k (talk) 20:51, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * My expectation is that Violation would be reviewed. And I think being an official selection for several of those festivals indicates a notable film-maker, although clearly early in his career. Alaney2k (talk) 14:31, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The question isn't whether it will be reviewed — even if it does, it will still need numerous reviews, not just one or two, to get him over GNG. The question is whether it has already been reviewed or not. We don't base notability on what might (but also might not) happen in the future — we judge it solely on the basis of whether what's already true today clears the bar or not. Bearcat (talk) 18:01, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * A lot of the notability essay articles work on predictors. E.g. sports first rounders, etc. It would be a predictor to be interviewed, then. Is there such an article for film personnel? Alaney2k (talk) 20:51, 7 August 2020 (UTC)r

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 01:15, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - based on the additions I have made to the article, I do believe that Mancinelli passes #1 and #3 of WP:FILMMAKER. As a stub before, it was sorely lacking. His shorts are available through paid major streaming services such as Prime and Apple TV. His films have won some significant awards. The awards at Slamdance are recognized by the Oscars. His feature film of this year was selected for the "Fantastic 7" and is premiering at TIFF. Additionally, the fact that his films have been shown at MANY film festivals internationally, and not minor festivals, would indicate a high level of respect in his field for his work. I don't think it is too early in his career for inclusion in Wikipedia. I think that Violation too, should probably have its own article, once it is shown at TIFF. Alaney2k (talk) 15:42, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - article now includes a number of well-cited claims of notability, including reviews of some of his work and participation in significant film festivals and receiving awards from these. Xuxl (talk) 16:43, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - I don't think the citations rise to WP:GNG. Subject of the article has directed short films, but this isn't enough to pass WP:CREATIVE.  This is a director who is working, but having a job in entertainment doesn't make the subject automatically notable. EverybodyEdits (talk) 05:59, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment If the consensus is to delete, I suggest instead that it be moved to Draft namespace instead as the director is about to premiere a feature film at TIFF. Alaney2k (talk) 14:21, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.