Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dutch Caribbean Stars


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Association football in Curaçao. Black Kite (talk) 15:13, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Dutch Caribbean Stars

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PROD contested by article creator; there is no evidence of notability. GiantSnowman 09:15, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 09:16, 12 December 2012 (UTC)


 * The Dutch Caribbean Stars are a real team, they exist and there are several articles online to prove it. They are not a club that plays in an actual league. They are like the Curaçaoan AllStar team. They are Curaçao's answer to the Suriprofs. Suriprofs are another Football team, which is made up of players of Suriname decent both who play in Suriname (Hoofdklasse teams) and Netherlands (Eredivisie and Eerste Divisie teams) Suriprofs have featured famous players including Clarence Seedorf and Edgar Davids. They are like Surinames team, if the Suriname National team, and the Surinamese Dutch players, played together. They then play in many matches to raise money to build football fields in these countries, and to promote the sport. They are very much present in Dutch, Surinamese and the ABC Islands media. The Dutch Caribbean Stars are the same thing, they feature players from the Curaçao national team, and Antilliean players in the Netherlands, who might play for the Netherlands, but are eligible to play for the Dutch Caribbean Stars in these events. Dutch Caribbean Stars have participated in invitational tournaments, and should not be deleted in my opinion. I can also add the squad if you would like, but have not finished this article, but translated the Dutch article into English for now. Subzzee 02:16, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Just because something exists does not mean it is notable. You have failed to demonstrate how this meets the general notability guideline - has it received significant coverage in reliable, third-party sources? No. GiantSnowman 20:41, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What do you just copy and paste the same response to every post? Are you a robot? Please don't make untrue statements in this debate. The Dutch Caribbean Stars are a very relevant team, they are basically an All-Star team of the Netherlands Antilles, which include players who play for the Dutch national team otherwise, as well as Antillean players abroad and on the various Dutch Caribbean islands. There are various news articles about this team, which take part in various fund raisers and friendly football tournaments in the Netherlands, Suriname, Curaçao, etc., similar to the Suriprofs. They are a known team in Dutch media, and I suggest you google them and see for yourself, before making such claims about their notability. You do realize there is media and relevant subject matter outside of what you know right? I don't come to your articles about something that might have relevancy where you are from that no one has heard of in my part of the World, and tell you that it is irrelevant and lacks notability. I suggest you look into the subject matter, before making such statements about the subjects notability. You clearly do not have an understanding of Dutch media coverage, and what is relevant in our sphere of influence, and I suggest you refrain from passing judgement over it. I have provided sources for all my information in this article, and can easily add more. Subzzee 23:08, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
 * If the reliable, third-party coverage exists then I strongly suggest you evidence it. GiantSnowman 09:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay fine, I will do so today when I get home from work. Subzzee 1:46, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Caribbean-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:01, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I will share the validity for this team today. (bare with me, I do have children and a life outside of Wikipedia) but I just wanted to note that I did not forget. Subzzee 12:11, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I will list several news sources and published articles below that refer to the Dutch Caribbean Stars to prove that although this team is not one that participates in league play, they are a valid team, and represent an All-Star selection from the Dutch Caribbean Islands. Vurnon Anita, Javier Martina, and many others have played for them. Harlem Globetrotters have an article on Wikipedia, and they don't participate in league play either. Dutch Caribbean Stars have played in several tournaments around the world (Curaçao, Suriname, Netherlands,..) and should be considered a valid entry in my opinion.


 * - Article published by RNW (Worldwide Dutch Longwave news broadcasting network) - RNW.
 * - Article published by CMS Dordrecht (Dutch Magazine from Dordrecht) - CMS Dordrecht.
 * - Article published by RNW (Worldwide Dutch Longwave news broadcasting network) - RNW.
 * - Article published by De Gelderlander (Dutch newspaper from the province of Gelderland) - De Gelderlander.
 * - Article published by AD.nl (Very popular Dutch news site) - AD.nl
 * - Article published by De Telegraaf (Leading Dutch newspaper) where Nelisse speaks of his retirement, and his role as the Ambassador of the Dutch Caribbean Stars - De Telegraaf
 * - Article published by Curaçao Sport (Leading Curaçaoan online sports journal) - Curaçao Sport
 * - Article published by De Gelderlander (Dutch newspaper from the province of Gelderland) - De Gelderlander.
 * - Article published in Dutch online magazine - Radar.
 * - Article published by one of the top Dutch sport magazines NU Sport - NUsport.nl

Above are ten credible sources, I can list more if necessary, but I hope this is enough to prove my case that this team is a valid subject matter. There are several prominent footballers with Antillean roots who have played for this team in friendly tournaments and fund raisers, who otherwise play for other national teams, but have Antillean roots. Players from Chelsea, Ajax, Feyenoord, West Brom Albion, Red Bull Salzburg and more. The team is the Allstar team of the Dutch Carribean Islands, they are popular in Curaçao, Aruba, Bonaire, Suriname and the Netherlands, and they do great things for the sport in Dutch Caribbean islands, helping to raise funds to build football pitches, hosting tournaments, and building football academies throughout the islands. They have also beat good clubs and won the occasional tournament as well. Let me know if any further detail is required. Like I stated earlier I intend on improving the article a great deal, and clarifying their position more in the scope of world football, giving a better understanding of who they are, what they have done, and where they stand. Any suggestions for improvements of the article are welcome. Subzzee 10:34, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've asked for a Dutch speaker to analyse the sources. GiantSnowman 08:53, 19 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Theo polisme  21:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)




 * Merge - GoogleTranslate is my friend. The sources provided above would certainly seem to be reliable (from actual news organisations) and most of them focus on the subject in question. I do, though, question the need for this article and Chippie Polar Cup (also at AFD here) which would seem to be a tournament designed to bring Dutch clubs to the Carribbean to play against the subject team. I can't see the need for both. So either keep this one and include a section on the cup (which seems to be its main reason for being anyway) or keep the cup article and include a section on the club/team formed to compete in it. I really can't see any need for both, though I have no particular preference as to which should be merged into the other. Stalwart 111  02:24, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I would support a merge as a compromise, ideally both into Dutch Caribbean Stars‎. GiantSnowman 09:13, 20 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Wait what? What you guys are suggesting and saying is incorrect. Dutch Caribbean Stars only played in one of the Chippie Polar Cup tournaments, which is the tournament which they won. Suriprofs have also participated in one tournament. I think you guys are confusing the Dutch Caribbean Stars with the Netherlands Antilles national team, which has played in more Chippie Polar/Expo Cups than the Dutch Caribbean Stars. The Netherlands Antilles national team no longer exists, since the country was dissolved, and Sint Maarten and Curacao are now their own country. The Dutch Caribbean Stars also include players who play for the Netherlands national team, and the Aruba national team as well.


 * Dutch Caribbean Stars are not the national team. They are an All-Star team of players from the Dutch Antilles and Dutch players of Antillean decent. I disagree that these entities be merged since they are not the same subject at all. The Chippie Polar Cup is an international friendly tournament hosted in Curacao. Teams from Suriname, Curacao, Aruba, Brazil and the Netherlands have played in it.


 * The Dutch Caribbean Stars is an AllStar team that played in one Chippie Polar Cup, but in other friendly tournaments in Aruba, Suriname and the Netherlands as well. The two entries are separate and do not belong together, you would not merge AFC Ajax and the Amsterdam Tournament either, and those two entries have more in common, then the ones we are discussing right now. Subzzee 3:48, 20 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, then we need to work on making the distinction - in sources and in the article. I, for one, am not on a merge-drive but there didn't seem enough to substantiate two articles. More than happy to listen to arguments that there is. For the record, the team article seems to be the weakest. It's not a professional team, there's no specific selection criteria, they don't play in a professional comp. So rather than pass a football criteria, it would probably need to pass WP:ORGDEPTH like other charity/not-profit entities. Stalwart 111  21:48, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * If we could pick this back up after the Holidays it would be appreciated, as I will be traveling and will have limited access to the internet, I return from my travels on January 3rd and would be happy to discuss this further, and to see if I can take the necessary steps in improving this article to where it can meet all Wikipedia requirements and standards. With that said happy holidays and happy new year, and I will talk to you soon. (Same goes for the Chippie Polar Cup, since I will be out of town) Subzzee 11:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.