Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eamon Delaney


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Spartaz Humbug! 16:15, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Eamon Delaney

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He is simply not notable. An unsourced BLP for more than 4 years (there is a source included but it isn't working). The only significant coverage I could find is his own writing, a Twitter account, a blog and this entry on Wikipedia (none of these are independent of the subject). Does not meet WP:BIO. Greykit (talk) 23:58, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
 * While I don't doubt that this AFD was begun in good faith, fact is that with the Irish, you have to use a news archive that does a better job on Irish and British papers from a decade ago - I used Proquest. Now the only problem is wading through the plethora of substantive coverage.  The fact that it was unsourced for so long may indicate many things other than lack of notability, such as lack of editors in Ireland, lack of editors who agree with Delaney's politics, lack of Wikipedia editors working to source older articles....E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:45, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete: as unsourced BLP.  Nha Trang  Allons! 16:02, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note that the issue at AFD is not whether an article is sourced (it is proper to bring an unsourced article to AFD) but once here the issue is whether sources exist that could support notability for the topic, making Nha Trang's comment useless.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:07, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:34, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bilateral relations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:34, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of News media-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:34, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:35, 22 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep here a profile in the Irish Independent which, according to a wikipedia is the largest circulation newspaper in Ireland.  And this  from Village (magazine) appears to show that at least some in Ireland take his writing seriously.  E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:21, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * (1) The first is in the paper for which he regularly writes columns like this, this and this. "Independent of the subject" is problematic here. "Primary sources may be used to support content in an article, but they do not contribute toward proving the notability of a subject."
 * (2) The second focuses on the sculptor Edward Delaney. Of nearly 10,000 characters only the following mentions an "Eamon Delaney" as being a relative: "Eamon Delaney in ‘Breaking the Mould’, a lengthy paean to his father Edward Delaney, not surprisingly supports Murray [...] Eamon Delaney lauds his father’s ‘Davis’ as superior to works by John Henry Foley." This, as stated previously, is evidently not enough for WP:BIO. --Greykit (talk) 20:59, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * In fact, the article is an art critique that fairly extensively engages Eamon (fils)' assessments of Edward (pere)'s sculpture. Eamon wrote an entire book about his famous (in Ireland) sculptor father.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:24, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
 * It would be pretty tough on Irish writers to exclude profiles from the Independent on grounds that they sometimes write for it. Is he regular staff, or an occasional?E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:17, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * This Twitter account suggests he is a columnist for its Sunday edition. Again, this calls into question anything from that publication in relation to the notability guideline at WP:BIO which calls for "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject". --Greykit (talk) 21:52, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I take you point; I'll source him to Haaretz. Seriously, I did (improbably) source him to Haaretz, but I think we should keep articles from both the Independent and the Irish Times (where he has also published articles), adding that he writes (has written?) for these papers.  Should we write this each time we refer to the paper?  Once in  the article?E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:36, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Also sourced him to Irish Examiner, where he doesn't appear to have written. this completes the leading Irish papers (didn't check the tabloids);-) E.M.Gregory (talk) 00:43, 23 April 2015 (UTC)


 * User:Greykit I don't have a dog in this fight. This one looked plausible, as in, can a guy with a diplomatic career & 3 books truly have no RS?  So I took a swing at sourcing him.  Taking a closer look now.  I still suspect that he's real, so I'll stick what I find on the page and report back.  Cheers.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:29, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Reporting back. There are now multiple sources on the page.  There's more to add, but what its there will, I believe, suffice to establish notability.  Note that the Irish Times, a publication for which Delaney has written, lists one of his books at the top of a 2013 bestseller list (paperbacks, nonfiction).E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:39, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
 * User:Greykit Truth is, it took a minute to find him. name brought up very little, even in news searches.   adding his name to keywords brought up lots of sources, although little in the way of profiles.  Still, book reviews, shorter but significant treatments, and that 2010 article  in the Independent.  I truly think it satisfies notability.E.M.Gregory (talk) 00:43, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 23:41, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 *  Weak Delete  - Just not seeing enough to satisfy WP:BIO or WP:NAUTHOR. It seems worth noting that a lot of the coverage of him, while it does talk about his work in particular, seems due to the notability of his father (this doesn't apply to all sources, of course). &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 00:30, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * User:Rhododendrites, User:Greykit, Allons! I hope you'll both take another look as I expand the page and source it to more of the London papers.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:37, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * There's enough of a question for me to strike my weak delete !vote, but not enough to switch to keep. I think the better case is for his book, but I'm just not sure about him. Abstaining. &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 20:37, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Now adding more sources, material; editors looking at this AFD should note that he was editor of a major magazine Mcgill, is columnist for a major daily, and has written 3 books: a novel published in 1985, republished in 2002; a widely-cited and discussed biography (of his Dad); a memoir of his diplomatic career that was a national bestseller.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:18, 4 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete. The bulk of these references don't satisfy WP:BIO or WP:NAUTHOR. Listing every passing reference to a person doesn't establish notability. Having a famous father doesn't confer notability. Is The Sun a reliable source now? Is The Mirror? Or the Sunday Mirror? Is the Daily Mail even one? --Inother (talk) 03:42, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Welcome to Wikipedia, User:Inother. And may I say that I am awed by the lightening speed with which you are able to assess complex careers in disparate fields and iVote on their notability,E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:58, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * If you mean the edits at other AfDs (do you?) it is really very simple. If a guideline/policy like WP:GNG (or WP:BIO in the case of people) is not satisfied then 'delete' is the sensible option. The edit confirming this takes seconds. The thinking, checking and deciding may take days. None of that makes any difference. I stand by what I said. I still doubt the validity of The Sun and The Mirror as reliable sources. As WP:V says, "Be especially careful when sourcing content related to living people or medicine." --Inother (talk) 20:46, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do think that even the Daily Mail is evidence of notoriety notability. But, seriously, the article is heavily sourced not only to Village (magazine) (competitor to Delaney's Magill) but to  to The Sunday Times, Irish Independent, Irish Examiner, The Irish Times, BBC, etc.,  in addition to the tabloids to which User:Inother objects.  More to the point: WP:AUTHOR is probably satisfied by the reviews his bestseller Accidental Diplomat, and press coverage of the fuss it caused in government circles.  As to "passing references", Delaney is such a jack-of-all-trades that I chose to source each career listed in the first sentence of the lede with a RS: "columnist" "author", etc.  (Look at the first of these, "columnist", an article from the Sunday Times that establishes him both as a "columnist" and as  "high-profile individuals" making waves in Irish politics).  Editors should be warned that Delaney's personality, as well as his local and international political stances have created enemies for him.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:26, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - E.M. Gregory's link is compelling and there is a very big Google footprint for this individual. Certainly a public figure in Ireland and looks very much like a GNG pass. Carrite (talk) 05:12, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment - I would like to vote keep because it meets WP:BIO because he is the main subject of articles in newspapers, but almost all the articles go to something called http://search.proquest.com. it seems you put them in. What is this? Elgatodegato (talk) 01:15, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
 * User:Elgatodegato, Proquest newspapers is a search tool available though institutions that subscribe (such as major research libraries) it allows you to easily find and read full articles. It is particularly useful with careers like Delaney's, that go back to the 90's and earlier.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:17, 10 May 2015 (UTC)


 * For anyone wanting a quick taste of Delaney, and a quick idea of how well-known he is, take a look at these  2 paragraphs  in an essay that ran in Haaretz, a daily in a country where he was never posted as a diplomat: "I'd have preferred to escort the Iraqi ambassador's wife," writes my wicked compatriot Eamon Delaney in "An Accidental Diplomat," a runaway bestseller two years ago that used my favorite quote about diplomats as its motto - a diplomat is someone who thinks twice before saying nothing. "With her chunky gold jewelry and strong calves, she was in that sexy `mature woman' bracket that gets young men excited at the start of their careers. I imagined her vaguely bored in a hot foreign posting and looking for a bit of (youthful) action. What would the Iraqis do if you threw the leg over? Throw the rest of you over to join it, I suspect."

"When he was at the United Nations, Delaney played the strange role of many affable Irish diplomats in his position, who have to sit "between Iraq and a hard place" - for the UN seats its delegates alphabetically. "I shook hands with the delegates of Iran and Iraq, who wouldn't speak to one another, and then with the delegate of Israel whom the other two wouldn't even look at." Delaney sat "between the I's" as the world ganged up on Iraq in 1990 over Saddam's despicable occupation of Kuwait, but he personally declined to join the official consensus of making all Iraqis into monsters. "The Iraqi delegates were really OK people and far more personable than the Iranians or, at times, the Israelis. The Iranians were the most chilling people in the room - compared to them the Iraqis were a bit of crack, talking about shopping or sports. They even warmed to [my friend's] search for a girl friend, suggesting one of the El Salvador delegates. `But she's so big,' we said. `Yes, yes, big is good,' said the Iraqis." E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:56, 14 May 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 19:12, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
 * summing up Delaney wrote a memoir of his brief career as an Irsih diplomat that was so funny and so feisty that it became a bestseller. He was editor of a major Irish political magazine. He is now columnist at a major Irish newspaper. He also wrote a bio of his famous sculptor Dad.  His books and columns are widely cited.  He is also written up in profiles.  His activities, jobs, and opinions are covered in major media not only in Ireland, but also in Britain. He writes about politics, therefore some people hate him.  Beyond that, I honestly have no idea why it has taken so long to keep this article.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:32, 14 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - notwithstanding the poorly organised article, agree with E.M.Gregory, subject is a published author, was editor of a national publication, is a regular columnist with a top selling national newspaper and is a well known personality - all strong criterion for WP:BIO. Keep — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quirinus X (talk • contribs) 22:54, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep: The article needs a bit of work, but is notable and I agree with E.M.Gregory... subject is a published author, was editor of a national publication, is a regular columnist with a top selling national newspaper and is a well known personality - all strong criterion for WP:BIO. Cheers - Ret.Prof (talk) 14:33, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * this is the 2nd AfD I've found where you have literally copied and pasted another !vote. LibStar (talk) 15:03, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.