Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ed Winters


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The !keep votes are from accounts that are very unconvincing - indeed, I'll be off to SPI for one of them soon. Black Kite (talk) 00:11, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Ed Winters

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One minor news article, the rest are his sources for making money. Small number of followers. Doesn't appear to meet WP:GNG. JamesG5 (talk) 14:26, 19 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep. Perhaps we missed The Telegraph, The Guardian, The Huffingtonpost, and the incident with the pigs in school, or the 2nd annual march? Den... (talk) 15:56, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:48, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:48, 19 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep per Den... Morgan Ginsberg (talk) 01:09, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep It meets notability criteria for a notable person and is founder of a notable grassroots animal rights organization, with worldwide activists. Also, large amount of YouTube followers: 127,500. User:Steven02511 Signed —Preceding undated comment added 03:49, 20 October 2018 (UTC)  Steven02511 (talk) 04:45, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete There are zero reliable sources in the article. As far as I can see, there are only two RSs out there that could be used, The Guardian and HuffPost. But I don't think those two are sufficient. Maybe if Winters were the main subject of each, but alas, he is not. We have to follow WP:GNG here. HelloMultiverse (talk) 15:02, 20 October 2018 (UTC) — HelloMultiverse (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep as long as the Daily Telegraph, Guardian, Huffingtonpost, Evening Standard, Sun, and Metro sources listed below by Den... are included. HelloMultiverse (talk) 13:39, 22 October 2018 (UTC) — HelloMultiverse (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * probably delete, appears to be WP:PROMO for a non-notable activist.  Org he founded, Surge activism, may not be notable either.E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:57, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:GNG and WP:PROMO. The sources listed above merely mention him or briefly interview him. They do not cover him significantly. The sources on the page don't either, they're links to help him make money as the nominator pointed out - one is to his freaking Patreon account, which is a clear showing WP:PROMO has been violated. Also, you don't pass WP:N through the number of Youtube subscribers you have... SportingFlyer  talk  06:53, 21 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment. I think that if this article would have been written as a promotional piece it would have included details that are also included in his personal page or in his twitter account. It would also make him look as the Rockstar of the activist world. But it does not. It is succinct, outdated and it lacks lots of data that is relevant.


 * When dealing with current topics, Wikipedia requires notability verified through reliable sources, and this article fits here perfectly, namely, to inform readers of a person who has a notable coverage.  Mr. Winters’ profile, whom I was totally unfamiliar with prior to arriving to this AfD, has superseded the animal protection and vegan activism by appearing, not only in two news events in major international papers, but in many more. I also find little strength in the argument that these news are hardly related to Mr. Winters when he is at the center of the events reported and often the only name mentioned.


 * Here are the ones I found together with the ones mentioned above (for perspective). All of these sources fit within what internal discussion in WP has already identified as reliable sources (see here and here).


 * The Daily Telegraph: here, here, and here.


 * The Guardian: here.


 * The Huffingtonpost: here.


 * Evening Standard: here, here and here (see here for a discussion about this source as reliable).


 * Montreal Times: here.


 * In scholarly circles, at least: one here. (as per E.M.Gregory below)


 * This list is not counting the myriads of references to lesser reliable sources like the Sun, Metro, or business news,  and publications dealing with animal rights or vegan activism. There is something fishy when a brand-new account plunges into AfD debates saying, “Zero reliable sources.” Obviously, this is a statement that cannot be supported by evidence now. Den... (talk) 16:45, 21 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Promotion doesn't need to make someone "look like a rockstar." The fact there are links to his specific projects Also, none of those sources listed cover him significantly per WP:SIGCOV - they all just mention him. SportingFlyer  talk  22:42, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note that I looked at the alleged "scholarly" source above, it is a mere speakers listing of Winters as one of scores of speakers at a conference on animal rights. NOT scholarly.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:06, 22 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete as WP:PROMO for a YouTube activist. Hits in my searches in searches are overwhelmingly to a non-notable animal rights activist website  to which Winters contributes.  Hits in RS media are mere mentions of his participation in protests and politically-motivated acts of vandalism.  Fails WP:ANYBIO, fails WP:SIGCOV.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:10, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note that article creator Steven02511 had created 9 pages, 3 of which have been deleted, 1 is currently at AfD Articles for deletion/Surge activism, and, with one exception, the others have been tagged for notability (Confessions of a Sociopath, Lethal Eviction, Anonymous for the voiceless.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:10, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Reply perhaps you could agree that editors with an idiosyncratic track record may also at times compose  indispensable and conventional articles. Den... (talk) 13:53, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Your editing record, and record is certainly, er... unusual. As are the editing records of User:Steven02511 and User:Morgan Ginsberg.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:03, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

As I explained in this other comment, in which I thanked you for pointing me to the error of WP:CITEKILL, I asked you to assume good faith from my part (WP:GF), not to plant doubts about my intentions in order to gain ground with your arguments. I have no stake here at all. I have presented my views and evidences, and wish you all well. Den... (talk) 17:13, 22 October 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * I've participated in several AFDs recently. I have nothing to gain if this article stays article stays up nor will I be bothered if it gets deleted. Morgan Ginsberg (talk) 08:33, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ad Orientem (talk) 01:52, 27 October 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Still appears to be a reasonably split consensus, primarily on whether the sources provided are sufficient

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nosebagbear (talk) 22:38, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Fails WP:SIGCOV. Revisiting.  Articles in the list above are mere trivial mentions. non-blueliked publication Montreal Times: "Ed Winters (Earthling Ed), will be speaking about his activism."  (at the not-major-event "Montreal Vegan Festival.)  HuffPost quotes him as founder of the non-notable - and recently deleted - Surge activism. The Guardian does a little more, "Ed Winters, the co-director of Surge, which orchestrated anti-fur demonstrations that attracted more than 250 people in September, a rise from 120 the previous catwalk season and 25 in September 2016, said 'we expect those numbers to continually rise'".  but getting 250 people to a demonstration DOES NOT notability confer.  Daily Telegraph is similar:  "'It seems strange that although the majority of British society is against the use of fur, it is still being given a platform at London fashion week,' said Ed Winters, co-director of Surge." Then there is the turkey thing: Vegan activists clash with police after hundreds of turkeys escape trailer "Ed Winters, also known as Earthling Ed, a vegan activist who was at the scene, told of how he was allowed to keep one turkey on his Facebook page."  To me, this looks like WP:PROMO for a non-notable activist.  Fails WP:BASIC; WP:SIGCOV.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: Sockpuppet investigations/Steven02511 on article creator.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:08, 5 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Note this too: it was E.M.Gregory who accused me in that same case of sockpuppeting and confabulating to manipulate the vote in this AfD, implying I was an interested party, but there is no foundation (can't speak for the others). It was an accusation done in haste. Look for yourself at the interaction tools and notice the lack of relation. If you had access to my IP address, you would see I am on the other side of the Atlantic, on a smaller island, and have nothing to do with the subject at hand. However, that is not necessary. You only need to study my contributions and compare them with the others. English is not even my first language, which you should have noticed by now before raising a finger against me. I only wanted to find out about the AfD, learn something new, and amicably share my thoughts but then met your unwarranted denunciation. It does not feel welcoming anymore. Arbitrarily blaming those whom you disagree with of sockpuppeting may work as a weapon to clear the field of your opposites and deviate attention away from their arguments, but is still low., I can't help but to wonder if you have an ax to grind here. If that is not the case, you have shown me an unfriendly way of debating in AfD. Den... (talk) 04:59, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete as failing WP:GNG and WP:NOTPROMO. If not a paid article certainly the creator should read WP:ADVOCACY closely. Dom from Paris (talk) 16:47, 9 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.