Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Educational Attainment Disparities Between American Racial and Ethnic Groups within the U.S.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  10:14, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Educational Attainment Disparities Between American Racial and Ethnic Groups within the U.S.

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While a highly worthy topic, this article seems to me to be Original Research or Synthesis of published material. It is possible that it might be rescuable by WP:TNT Fiddle   Faddle  16:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions.  Fiddle   Faddle  16:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions.  Fiddle   Faddle  16:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions.  Fiddle   Faddle  16:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment: Seems like Achievement gaps in the United States covers the same material without being an essay that is clearly arguing for the highly contested view that so-called "cultural factors" are critical in explaining achievement gaps? Material in this article could be merged into "Achievement gaps" where relevant. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 21:29, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * , Merging that which is not OR to the article you mention is a perfectly reasonable outcome Fiddle   Faddle  21:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete This is pretty much a collection of original research in order to prove someone's opinion, much like an essay. There is useful material, but it is so disparate we would have to parcel it out to different articles. Zoozaz1 (talk) 22:53, 12 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep Thanks for the feedback, I'm new to editing and this is my first new article (and defense of an article)! I understand where commenters so far coming from, but as I read the rules on OR & Synthesis, the main takeaways are:

(1) "no reliable, published sources exist" – all of my sources are published, reliable sources;

(2) "serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by any of the sources" – the article cites over two dozen sources, and the overall conclusion of the article is stated or implied with varying degrees of explicit between them. For example, my citation of John McWhorter's work explicitly cites some parts of black culture as contributing to the "achievement gap" between races in the U.S., while data from the National Center for Education Statistics demonstrates statistically significant and clear differences among races in amount of time high school students spend doing homework. While NCES doesn't explicitly cite cultural differences, they certainly don't state or suggest that there's anything genetic that causes Asian Americans to do 5 or more days per week of homework at a rate that is more than double than that of African Americans. Kathy Seal's article explicitly cites Asian culture as directly contributing to educational outcomes, and the Vuong article concurs to the degree that that it comes with a cautionary warning that Asian parenting and its strict emphasis on achievement may be ultimately be to their children's detriment in some ways.

As AleatoryPonderings mentions above, this is not my original theory or opinion, but something that is already out there in the arena of public debate. Admittedly, the topic raises isn't the most politically correct and it raises some uncomfortable questions, but we know that truths often do that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RubleCain (talk • contribs) 16:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment The title itself, I will admit, is not WP:SYNTH. However, I still do not think, in this form, that the article is a valid Wikipedia article. It read close to an essay; the lead even has a counteargument in it, implying this is an argument, not an encyclopedia article. The family stability section seems ill-fitted for the article, combining a scholarly and worthy topic of the impact of family stability on school preference with the implication that the culture of each ethnic group somehow contributes to family stability, not shown in any of the sources (Yes, the numbers are different across different cultures, but that does mean the culture itself contributes to it). The uncited claim "Black disparities in marriage appear at all levels of education, suggesting that something more than class status is at play" doesn't help. The section ignores correlation/causation, the existence of systemic racism, and the reality that African American culture is somewhat different from the majority culture of the US, increasing friction and tension (When I say different, I do not mean better or worse; simply that there is a tension that negatively impacts African Americans (or Latinos) across class levels). Furthermore, the second section, a comparative analysis, is inherently WP:SYNTH; you are doing the comparing and has the same problems as before. Note that the sections don't explicitly say that culture impacts education; it is simply says cultural groups has differing degrees of educational success. Ignoring causation vs. correlation and centuries of slavery and discrimination that would logically have an effect on educational achievement. The summary goes on to dismiss that view (again uncited) and claim a conclusion not stated in the vast majority of citations. This is both an essay and very clear synthesis. Zoozaz1 (talk) 16:55, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Merge after discussion. It should be merged and redirected to Racial achievement gap in the United States. However, I think this page should be kept for now to allow merging of content. My very best wishes (talk) 17:02, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   14:19, 19 July 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, PhantomSteve/ talk ¦ contribs \ 18:02, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete as intrinsically and fundamentally WP:SYNTH. Perhaps references can be used elsewhere, though they are of variable quality (stuff like local news, an op-ed, and a random website are mixed in with the National Academies Press). However, the prose shouldn't. XOR&#39;easter (talk) 23:33, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete, unless someone is willing to rewrite the article from scratch. Unfortunately, appears to have misunderstood the purpose of Wikipedia, writing above about "the overall conclusion of the article". Wikipedia articles don't have conclusions because they don't present their own arguments; this is an essay, not an encyclopedia article. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:14, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete or draft then rewrite --Devokewater  @  10:57, 2 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.