Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Edvarda Aslaksen Braanaas


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  Sandstein  21:50, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Edvarda Aslaksen Braanaas

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Autobiographical article (consider content of User:Jahibadkaret) that fails WP:CREATIVE, WP:NOTADVOCATE, WP:NOTREPOSITORY and possibly others. The vast majority of the info in this article is unreferenced, and the little that is doesn't establish notability.

I'd PROD this but considering the conflict of interest that exists for the contributor, this would just end up at AfD in a day or two anyway. &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 20:09, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Norway-related deletion discussions.   -- &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 20:11, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions.   -- &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 20:12, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions.   -- &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 20:12, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete I would add that the references in the article seem to be to the front pages of various institutional websites, and do not mention the author. When added to a book which is not purported to describe the author, this brings the number of useful references for determining notability to 0 1. Ray Yang (talk) 00:17, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Number of good references increased by 1 due to Tyrenius' work :) If we get to 2, I'll change my position. RayAYang (talk) 02:54, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment I've cleaned up the article and added a ref from the Norwegian Embassy site. There are refs in the external links section which could be used, but most, like most of the google results are not in English.  Ty  01:55, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Well that appears to take care of the WP:NOTADVOCATE and WP:NOTREPOSITORY problems, but I still don't see evidence that she passes WP:CREATIVE; she may have been part of a significant exhibition, but was she a substantial part thereof? &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 14:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The primary requirement per WP:N is multiple independent sources. I've added more refs and it's looking better. I've posted on Wikiproject Norway to see if anyone can help with sources and translation, which is a stumbling block. I'm inclined to think she passes the bar. Henne is, I understand, a leading magazine. The useful references are certainly not 0, as stated above.  Ty  01:34, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello. I'm not going to have an opinion about the article nor the process, but I can help with Norwegian language text if desired. I live in Norway & read and write the languages fluently. In quick searches I find nothing about this artist in no:wikipedia. What I do find on Google certainly confirms that she exists but it appears that descriptions/opinions of her work is (primarily) in her own words, in interviews and the like. She lists as relevant work experience jobs as guide at the Edvard Munch Museum and similar, and in the staff one year of the major national art exhibit Høstutstillingen (Haustutstillinga), but I can't see that her work has been included there. --Hordaland (talk) 06:28, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails to meet notability requirements. __meco (talk) 07:39, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I am the original author of EAB. (It is holiday here so I have not been able to follow what's been happening here.) I must say that I appreciate the critique given above, however this is my first significant wikipedia entry and have not been able to immediately address all issues alone... I do however, feel that EAB satisfy both part 2 and part 3 (multiple independent periodical articles or reviews) under WP:CREATIVE. In particular, if the Henne article counts, certainly the VG article should count as well, since it represents one of the 5 largest Norwegian newspapers. Finally, I believe that her work style is not just a simple iconic juxtaposition. Although it could partially be described as such, I think there is more thought and originality to her technique than that, since she is not only changing the iconic meaning, but also using it as fundamental part integrated as a whole. This is how I have understood it and that seems very original to me. (AFAIK. I have not seen any contemporary painters do this, in this manner.) Thus I do not agree with Meco's notability failure. I would also be very happy to contribute with specific translations or additional material regarding this article. I will also attempt to contact EAB regarding clarification of the above mentioned issues. -- Jahibadkaret (talk) -- —Preceding comment was added at 00:49, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * weak keep but needs a more substantial basis for substance - public collections? important private collections? etc..Modernist (talk) 12:30, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I thought I'd found another item in her favor, but it didn't work out. She is still listed at: , a half-public organization which rents out works of art to "the workplace", canteens etc.  (Click for the continuation of the list, search on page for edvarda.)  You'll find a link to her participation in the project, but it's a dead (404) link.  Oh, well, it's not listed on her CV, either.  --Hordaland (talk) 13:53, 16 July 2008 (UTC)  Ooops, sorry.  None of the "Go to" links on that page work, apparently.  Clicking on her name does get you to a new site, but the link there takes you right back where you were.  --Hordaland (talk) 13:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your participation which is very helpful. Is this site of any use? You mentioned interviews above. Are any of these on sites of any substance? Also I wonder if you could evaluate the status newspapers and magazines given in references and the external links section, Aftenposten, VG and Henne.  Ty  00:04, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello again. Haven't really found much in the way of articles or criticisms.  Have found that she shows and sells etchings and drawings as well as the oil paintings.  Still seems strange to me that an article should appear on en: before no: or nn: Wikipedia, but maybe there aren't many art-interested editors on nn and no.  Has apparently been shown in London this spring; see poster at the bottom of this page.
 * Henne is a glossy magazine for women aged 20-40 owned by a publisher which owns lots of glossy magazines. 17 print issues/year.
 * Aftenposten, VG and Dagbladet are probably the three best known daily newspapers in Norway. All three are from Oslo but sold all over the country.  I think all three use only bokmål, the majority version of written Norwegian, though some softening up may be underway.
 * Aftenposten is staid, conservative, respectable almost to a fault. It's sold in major newsstands but not in every grocery store or gas station.  (You can click on their main page for News in English.)  A search for Braanaas on their website gives: 25.04.08, announcement of her exhibit in Oslo; and 17.03.06, article/announcement about her sales exhibit in Oslo.
 * VG is a tabloid which will put anything on the front page if they can use the word sex in the headline; murder and kidnapping sells well, too. Lots of Sport.  Available wherever newspapers are sold.
 * Dagbladet, which may not have been mentioned here (yet), is in between. Site search for Edvarda Braanaas gives announcement of a 3 artist exhibition in 1998.
 * KIK is "The Artists' Information Office" established in 1986 by several artists', craftsmen's and photographers' organizations. Online since 2005.  Receives some public funding.  Presents living Norwegian artists and their works; has a huge collection of slides.  Publishes a yearbook.  Provides consultants for public purchases of art.  The page you've found about Braanaas presents her, her background, education and ideals; I would assume that it was written by or in collaboration with her.
 * --Hordaland (talk) 17:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I have now read thoroughly all the critique given here including the details addressing WP:NOTADVOCATE, WP:NOTREPOSITORY, WP:CREATIVE and WP:N issues. However, I fail to see a clear picture of the issues at hand that remains to be addressed. Could you be more specific? There are some very cloudy statements above. Perhaps because much of the original article have been removed instead of rewritten. (Personally I think it should be part of general courtesy to first inform article authors before significant parts are removed or rewritten, but then again I am new to this so I don't know what laws rule in this jungle. ;)

To be specific (comments and questions):


 * What is an important private collection? (Is a person who buys several of the artists works considered as important, or does the buyer have to be famous in some other sensedd?)
 * Important private collections generally indicate an art collection that has a wide variety of artists works, both known and unknown, a wide variety of art both new and older considered to be worth while as a collection of viable aesthetic substance.Modernist (talk) 03:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * What does it mean to be part of a substantial exhibition? This can be intrinsically unclear as the Norwegian art scene is very small although very active.
 * Museum show, important gallery, both, group show with international or national figures, Modernist (talk) 03:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It is not clear why wikipedia links and references to EAB educational institutions have been removed? This seem very non standard.


 * RayYang: It is not clear where one should put a reference to an inspirational source. Certainly by every other reference standard, one would list it along the other sources.


 * Hordaland seem confused by the work experience which should have been part of the EAB Biography and not understood as relevant artistic work. (This would have been understood if the original text was not deleted, wherein work experience was never included!) He also state that the descriptions and opinions are primarily by her own words, which is incorrect. These are the words of the journalist authors, some of who are art critic's. Although I leave the obvious possibility open for someone having paraphrased EAB in a possible interview.


 * I have contacted EAB for obtaining further references and working links to relevant material. I'm Awaiting her respons.


 * Personal Comment: I have written this article without any personal gain or interest other than my pleasure in I letting people know about a contemporary artist who I and others find interesting and original enough that we believe she should be part of the other wikipedia artist entries from that country. As such, I followed a number of other artist entries in writing style and content. I was therefore very surprised to find most of entries removed. This especially since I can easily list a number of contemporary artists on both the Swedish and Norwegian wikipedia who certainly are both less eligible and less noteworthy, at least in comparison to the strict criteria EAB have been faced with. Could it be that the English wikipedia part are overly restrictive in comparison to what you find on wikipedias from smaller countries? (Or perhaps the opposite?)

Furthermore (as I already mentioned earlier) I also reject the idea of her work style being simple juxtapositions of recognizable iconography. This is like saying that Beethoven's symphonies are just simple juxtapositions of sounds iconofied by notes. It completely misses the point.

-- Jahibadkaret (talk) 16:22, 16 July 2008 (UTC) --
 * What is needed is to establish notability through coverage in independent secondary sources. See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Under the edit box it states: "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed for profit by others, do not submit it." This is an article in progress: it can be added to or amended, provided material is cited. The artist's web site can be used as a source for non-contentious material such as education and birth place. The article doesn't say simple "juxtapositions of recognizable iconography". The statement was derived from the reference. Please specify how the reference does not indicate that and what you consider the reference does indicate. That should be done on the article talk page, though, not here.  Ty  00:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. Too little coverage of her work by third-party reliable sources as of yet, much less than it is customarily required by WP:BIO for creative artists. Does not pass WP:CREATIVE for the moment. Nsk92 (talk) 02:36, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete no evidence of major awards or of work in major museums. DGG (talk) 04:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.