Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Egland Haxho


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. There was also no consensus on whether all the articles should be considered in one debate or not. If anyone wants to renominate them then it is my personal opinion that there will be a greater chance of consensus if they are considered separately, particularly Egland Haxho and Arbër Abilaliaj. Thryduulf (talk) 11:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Egland Haxho

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Contested PROD stating "...player is competing in the top-level in Albania", however it is unverifiable that the Albanian Superliga is fully-professional thus he fails criteria for sportspeople at WP:ATHLETE. Also fails WP:GNG due to lack of references. --Jimbo[online] 20:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC) I am also nominating the following, as they too fail the same criteria as Haxho; --Jimbo[online] 20:15, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Arbër Abilaliaj
 * Sajmir Çelhaka
 * Erand Hoxha
 * Sokol Çikalleshi
 * Artan Sakaj
 * Sokol Ishka
 * Meglid Mihani
 * Bilal Velija
 * Ilirjan Mërtiri
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.  — KuyaBriBri Talk 21:05, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albania-related deletion discussions.  — KuyaBriBri Talk 21:05, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. GiantSnowman 00:12, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete all per nom; non-notable players. GiantSnowman 00:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep for Egland Haxho. I can't prove that the Albanian Superliga is 'fully professional', can anyone prove that the Premier League is. He is notable for playing at the highest level in Albania, which is a part of the most important continental FA club-competition wise. Should those other Albanians be grouped like this into 1 AfD rather than listed separately? Anyway, I had a look at Arbër Abilaliaj and see he has an even greater argument for keeping - 79 league appearances including 58 for the significant Partizani Tirane club. I think we need to be careful about pro-Western (Europe) bias. However, notwithstanding the above I will see what I can do about adding sources, though the timescale is unhelpful. Eldumpo (talk) 07:20, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete all per nom. Sorry but there is no evidence the Albanian top flight is fully professional. It is not a matter of pro-Western bias, since the same applies for countries like Malta, Luxembourg, Estonia and Finland. --Angelo (talk) 07:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying the Albanian lge is definitely 'fully professional' but for which leagues can you definitely say that. What it means then is that people are free to dispute the Athlete criteria whatever league it is. I'm saying these athletes have general notability, but it seems particularly harsh on Albanians to kick out players competing in their top football league; will any Albanians be left on here? Eldumpo (talk) 17:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A list of fully professional leagues is available at WP:FPL. --Angelo (talk) 18:20, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Angelo, thanks very much for this link, interesting. However I see most of the entries are unsourced. Of those with references I did have a look at, none actually met the incredibly stringent definition of 'a sports league where all first team players, in all teams composing the league, are known to be contracted in a full-time basis.' !! Eldumpo (talk) 18:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete all per nom. – PeeJay 07:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete all per nom — if we allow Albanian Premier League players despite their WP:ATHLETE failure, what next, Faroe Islands? пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  18:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Question Is this one of those cases where general WP:N trumps WP:ATHLETE? I'm not sure which side of the fence I'm on, but it's something to consider. IMHO, playing 50 times for Partizan Tirana makes one more notable than, say, winning a regional US college soccer award, and we kept Doug DeMartin for that very reason. --JonBroxton (talk) 20:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't think so, I don't see any significant reliable, and detailed coverage about the subjects themselves we require. And WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not considered a valid argument (I think DeMartin is non-notable as well, but it's merely my opinion). --Angelo (talk) 21:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - I tried to improve Arbër Abilaliaj and believe it may come close to passing WP:N or that his play in the Intertoto Cup could satisfy WP:ATHLETE. I don't read Albanian, so it's a bit difficult to find local sources about him. Jogurney (talk) 02:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding further info. I think the fact that he's played in the Intertoto (and scored!) makes him a definite keep. No one has yet answered my query about all these players being bundled up into 1 AfD. Eldumpo (talk) 22:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I bundled the AfD as they are all footballers in a similar position with regards to notability. Would be a bit of a waste of time/space to create nine seperate AfDs. --Jimbo[online] 12:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, they're all different, it's not like when you have (say) multiple TV series articles created. I think Arber and Artan should definitely be kept as the real stand-outs, they should not be lost to Wikipedia. Eldumpo (talk) 22:07, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Obviously they're all different, but all closely related as WP:BUNDLE states. They're up for deletion for exactly the same reason and they all play for clubs in the same league which it's "fully-professional" status is in question. --Jimbo[online] 22:35, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Even teams from Andorra and Faroe Islands used to play in the tournament, do you really think they are notable just by playing in a Intertoto Cup! Not really a good point, sorry. Intertoto Cup (which was recently dismissed, by the way) is no different than UEFA Cup preliminary rounds at my eyes, especially in its first round which used to involve a bunch of really minor teams. --Angelo (talk) 22:59, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand your point, and agree that many semi-pro or amateur clubs played in the Intertoto. However, I understand that Ethnikos Achnas is fully-pro, so the matches in question were at a higher level. The player also has a fair amount (although maybe not a "significant amount") of coverage in reliable sources. The article is pretty close to passing WP:N, although I doubt it actually does. Since I spent some time searching and this was the best I could find, it does support the idea that the other articles would fail WP:N. Jogurney (talk) 00:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The UEFA Cup/Europa League is a significant competition and I would say players/clubs participating in it are inherently notable. Eldumpo (talk) 22:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So, a player of an amateur team from Andorra can suddenly become notable only because he played one minute of a Intertoto game against a team that happened to be professional? I would call it "coin tossing notability" rule, since a team is coupled to another team by a draw... --Angelo (talk) 07:04, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, but a professional club in a league which is not fully pro may be able to. I believe that there is precedent for this on articles about footballers who played in the FA Cup. That said, I'm not convinced the Abilaliaj article actually passes WP:ATHLETE, or that it has sufficient references to pass WP:N. It's close, and that's a good sign that the other articles listed here (for less accomplished footballers) would not pass. Jogurney (talk) 12:20, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - I also tried to source Artan Sakaj and he probably comes even closer to passing WP:ATHLETE as he played in the 2nd round of the 2008 Intertoto against Grasshoppers. Again, there aren't many sources for someone like me who doesn't read Albanian, but it's pretty close to passing WP:N. Jogurney (talk) 23:43, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. Before we start wholesale removing all Albanian players, one should establish if the league is fully-professional, or close enough.  And one should be careful of introducing systemic regional bias into the project. Nfitz (talk) 01:51, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete No evidence of notability or real attempt to show that it might be the case. Suspiciously, no attempt has been made to create articles on Albanian wiki so probably just self-publicity--AssegaiAli (talk) 20:13, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I meant Delete All--AssegaiAli (talk) 20:14, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that is a good standard to use, but there appears to be a plan to create an article for Abilaliaj on the Albanian WP. Jogurney (talk) 21:47, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.