Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elgin Children's Chorus


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. North America1000 09:53, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Elgin Children's Chorus

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Fails NMUSIC and ORG John from Idegon (talk) 00:11, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete given that this search did find mentions about this group in several articles from the Chicago Tribune, but they were only mentioning them in relation to school concerts or something like that. I see this article as nothing more than an advertisement. editorEهեইдအ😎 00:21, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:19, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Illinois-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:19, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete as both this and my searches have nothing solid enough for convincing notability. SwisterTwister   talk  02:35, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep finding many local and regional sources over an extended period of time to indicate that the organization has lasting coverage. For example, Elgin Children's Chorus presents final show of season (Chicago Tribune), Elgin Children's Chorus to hold auditions,  'Devine' singing with Elgin Children's Chorus (Chicago Daily Herald), and From the quaint to the spectacular, McHenry County's holiday happenings (Northwest Herald) are some examples.  I'm finding a good amount of coverage made up of feature articles in the Chicago Tribune, and although Elgin is a distant suburb of Chicago, it's clear that this is far and above any routine coverage.  Passes WP:GNG.--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:43, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment - The source above you have labeled as the Chicago Tribune is actually from the Courier-Tribune, a west suburban paper bought out by the Trib several years ago....unambiguously a local paper. The Daily Herald is a joint banner shared by several separate local editions distributed in the Chicago suburbs, also not a regional paper. In any case, one of those citations is just a short blurb and the other is primarily about an artist making a guest appearance with the choir. The bit in the NW Herald is nothing more than an announcement. Lastly, passing GNG is irrelevant. ORG is the applicable standard and it requires widespread coverage. John from Idegon (talk) 05:26, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Response www.chicagotribune.com -- published by the Chicago Tribune. The header says it's "Chicago Tribune" and if you click on "home" it takes you to the Chicago Tribune.  The Chicago Tribune thinks enough of the subject to publish it under their banner--doesn't really matter which paperboy delivers it to who at that point.--Paul McDonald (talk) 12:16, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep. International touring (Europe) is enough to pass WP:NBAND. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 13:46, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment: It's notable when a band gets international gigs and organizes a tour, but choral programs frequently "tour" at their own expense as an educational program, rather than something primarily musical. If we apply this notability standard to choirs, there are literally thousands of American high school bands and choirs which will be independently "notable" under this standard, when in fact they are not.--Jahaza (talk) 14:34, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Response the argument made by Jahaza itself is sound, I just do not believe it applies in this case. Certainly self-funded educational tours will not necessarily qualify every such choir as notable, but investigation will show that such tours usually have performances at relatively minor venues.  We're looking at gigs from Wrigley Field to Carnegie Hall, having performed with Vienna Boys Choir, Donny Osmond, and Leonard Nimoy.  The group has a history at least as far back as 1986.  Individually, those may not reach notability but brought together it all means something.  And that's reflected by the coverage in the media that the group gets.--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:50, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * the problem is that they didn't actually perform with the Vienna Boys Choir, they went to a workshop taught by the Vienna Boys Choir, as the citation says and as is reflected in the article "Memories as large as the Alps: European trip thrills singers in Elgin chorus" in the local Daily Herald. Similarly, a letter from the tour company in the Daily Herald says the Carnegie Hall performance was part of a "festival" organized by MidAmerica Productions. That one company is producing performances by 127 different school, church, and community choral groups at Carnegie Hall in the next four months alone.--Jahaza (talk) 16:10, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Even so, the extensive coverage more than surpasses WP:GNG.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:17, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep. Enough coverage to merit inclusion. --Michig (talk) 08:19, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 11:24, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not inof signifikans or spicialiti, djust a jusjual advertaizment. (Sori for mai erors, I onli spik Inglish, not rait it.) 185.19.20.240 (talk) 19:38, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Query Your comments are of course always welcome at Wikipedia. What I need to ask is that if you cannot write English, how can we be confident that you can also read English?  That certainly can weigh in to evaluation of your comments.--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:20, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Or maybe you're just pulling our leg. Sparafucil (talk) 22:46, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep: 'Band notability' guidelines (do we need different criteria for Category:Choirs of children?) cites either of independent press coverage, "most prominent of the local scene" Sparafucil (talk) 22:46, 26 March 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.