Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elisa Jordana (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.

This seems like the perfect example of why we have not a ballot. There are multiple !votes by the same people making the same points with a couple of "keep" !voters bringing "arguments" such as "imdb is a source" and WP:ILIKEIT/WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Of those who actually argued about the subject's notability based on our policies and guidelines, the opinion is split about whether the sources are sufficient to establish notability or not, hence I'm closing this as no consensus. While Ritchie was the only one arguing for redirect, before renominating that should be considered as an alternative because no matter her individual notability, her name is a likely search term.

Regards  So Why  14:36, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Elisa Jordana
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Fails WP:GNG, no news articles, or reliable independent sources where the subject of the article is the main person with whom the article is about -- Eng. M.Bandara -Talk  09:07, 18 September 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sterned (talk • contribs)
 * DELETE. I made several sourced edits and they were all reversed by same overzealous editor. Editor claims any changes are made to disparage. It is impossible to have factual information on this wiki with that type of editing. Jordana was not a key member of Cobra Starship and was fired. Jordana did not have a big role and was only ever mentioned due to her relationship with Stern writer Benjy Bronk. Jordana was never hired to be on Vanderpump Rules but did work as hostess at Sur Restaurant. According to her own social media Jordana no longer works at Sur and has moved to Colorado. Jordana appeared in a Playboy special edition in 2002 which would of made her 14 according to the edited year of birth on this wiki. Enough is enough.
 * Comment Jordana is no longer working at SUR but was 100% filmed for the Vanderpump Rules show and will have a role on it in the next season. That's a fact. If not, then this can be bought up again in the next two months when the new season airs and we see whether or not she's on it. But again, I think she's accomplished enough in her career to meet WP standards. Also, I make all my edits on this account or with my sincere IP Address when I'm not logged in. The User above uses many different IP addresses and accounts to make disparaging edits about Jordana (from her age to poorly sourced material). Their opinion should not hold much merit when it's clear they have an agenda against this individual.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by LeafK1 (talk • contribs)
 * Comment Your attack is uncalled for. I have not made any edits besides the ones as a logged in member. I did not and would not change her year of birth to 1971 knowing the criteria used by Wikipedia. You have reversed my edit on Jordana being fired from Cobra Starship when the source of the article was mtv.com. There is no verifiable citation that satisfies Wikipedia criteria that Jordana is a cast member of Vaderpump Rules.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sterned (talk • contribs)
 * Keep. Jordana was a key member in the band Cobra Starship (a band that has sold Platinum records) for their first 2 years, had a big role in arguably the biggest radio show of the last 30 years in The Howard Stern Show, has written for publications like XO Jane and Marie Claire, and is slated to have a predominate role in the upcoming season of the Bravo reality TV series Vanderpump Rules. For months a couple of persistent individuals have tried to discredit those Vanderpump sources as unreliable, but in it she's exclusively asked if she's on the show and she responds with a definitive yes. She has since been seen in photographs with the cast working at the restaurant the show is filmed at. The fact that she was in a platinum selling band like Cobra Starship, provided a huge storyline on the Stern Show for close to 5 years, wrote for some big online publications, and is now going to be on a very popular reality show all warrants that she has a Wikipedia page.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by LeafK1 (talk • contribs)
 * Comment Any other converage of the subject besides radar online where she is the main subject of the article? -- Eng. M.Bandara -Talk  09:42, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  M assiveYR   ♠  10:08, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  M assiveYR   ♠  10:08, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions.  M assiveYR   ♠  10:08, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment Yes, OK Magazine ran a piece on it, as did Reality Buzz TV.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by LeafK1 (talk • contribs)
 * Favor Delete Still say delete, the OK Magazine link redirects to the radar online, it would be highly dubious proposition at best to consider the second link reality buzz tv passing WP:RS -- Eng. M.Bandara -Talk  13:33, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment It's an official interview with Elisa stating it's true. The publication shouldn't matter (even though both publications have their own Wikipedia pages), that's as reliable of a source as you can have. It's coming straight from the camel's mouth. And even without Vanderpump Rules, the contributions she's made with Cobra Starship, The Howard Stern Show, being in other reality TV shows, her published articles, and even being in a film... how can you discredit all of that?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.122.78.212 (talk)
 * Comment The subject of the article is never a reliable source which is why Wikipedia requires secondary sources. Very few criminals would be guilty if we took their word for it. Sterned (talk) 19:15, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * It's original research, we don't know who Elisa is, Wikipedia has a policy of using secondary sources to vet primary sources, so your argument violates WP:NOR policy.-- Eng. M.Bandara -Talk  20:36, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 01:52, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by FSOJM791 (talk • contribs)
 * Keep. The majority of sourced articles seem legitimate and her IMDB page seem to back up the career claims.
 * Note- The above unsigned post by FSOJM791 has no edit history other than the 19 September 2017. -- Eng. M.Bandara -Talk  15:23, 19 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete - she was the 'keytarist' and backup singer in Cobra Starship (which indicates she was only with the band two years not three - leaving in December 2006, however given the band was formed in 2006 her period of time with the band would have been less than two years), she didn't write any of the band's songs (according to the respective items on the band's releases) and there are no independent verifiable articles provided that indicate that she had any influence on the band (see WP:NOTINHERITED). Then there's the statement "After three years in the band, she broke free to make an attempt at a solo career." - broke free?? It goes onto state that she released, sorry 'launched' two singles however the reference cited links to a YouTube video performing the song "Online Sweetheart", no indication that it was her song or that it was released as a single and no mention of a second song/single, "Fuck You I'm Fine" (see WP:MUSICBIO). Then her radio career appears to be limited to a number of guest appearances on The Howard Stern Show, given the number of guests that have appeared on the Howard Stern Show this is hardly notable in its own right. The reference cited in the article states "that she is also a staff member on the show, and has been a comedy writer on the program for over a year." not "Jordana was also hired as a writer for The Howard Stern Show for four years starting from late 2011 to December 2015" as stated in the article. Then in the section on her being a writer the article states "Jordana has had columns featured in XOJane, Marie Claire, Yahoo, The Washington Post,and The Rumpus." however the references cited all appear to be articles written by regular columnists, where Jordana is interviewed not where she is the primary author (see WP:AUTHOR). In summary there is not enough here to establish notability. Dan arndt (talk) 05:30, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep I see no reason of this page to be in Articles for deletion. what I see is someone try to take down a celebrity wiki page because they don't like them is not an excuse. Just because a celebrity is not working at the moment to your knowledge, is not a reason to get rid of their wiki page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhof84 (talk • contribs)
 * Comment You may be disillusioned to discover that Wikipedia is not a WP:DEMOCRACY, decisions are not based on counting votes but rather assessing the merits of each argument against the P&G] -- Eng. M.Bandara -Talk  09:08, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment: — Jhof84 (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Richard3120 (talk) 14:38, 21 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep. This is borderline, but I think the articles in MTV (link), Punknews.org (link), OK! (link), Radar Online (link) and Marie Claire (link) establish notability as these are all reliable independent sources where the subject of the article is the main person with whom the article is about. Robman94 (talk) 23:05, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep Notability is established enough by provided articles.--INDIAN REVERTER (talk) 23:08, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment: has been blocked from Wikipedia. Richard3120 (talk) 14:34, 21 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Redirect to List of The Howard Stern Show staff per AfD #1. The sources supplied by Robman94 are either WP:BLPSOURCES violating tabloid journalism or self-published (ie: non-independent) works, while a search beyond this brings up similar things like "Howard Stern raves about Elisa Jordana and Benjy Bronk Nude Register To Vote Photo" (makes you wonder how Jeremy Corbyn managed it fully-clothed) . Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  15:02, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * regardless of political persuasions and affiliations, I think we're all glad that Jeremy Corbyn did manage to do it fully clothed. Richard3120 (talk) 16:41, 21 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete passing mention, minor apparences, a small part in a band, none of this adds up to notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:16, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep This article has been greatly improved and modified. The ambiguity in age and time spent in different careers has been greatly modified to what it should be. I understand simply that primary sources are mainly from the person involved and secondary from other reliable sources which is not the person involved. In a sense, both of these sources has been provided in the article to greatly buttress notability. Remember that most Wikipedia pages started thier wiki journey in a pretty bad shape and grew to where they are. This page still has a chance of continous growth and improvement with continous contributions from wikipedia editors.KingMak1 (talk) 22:25, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete A deeper look into claims in the article shows most do not hold up to the sniff test. Jordana did not part ways with Cobra Starship to pursue a solo career she was fired and announced it herself . According to Jordana she was cut from her extra role on Sharknado 4 "But when I got cut from the movie (you can only see the back of my head)" . In her own words on August 15th of 2017 she is not on Vanderpump Rules. Sterned (talk) 16:43, 24 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Note- Sterned has already voted. Elisa had a non-speaking role in Sharknado 4 imdb. How she departed from Cobra Starship is irrelevant. Also, the fact that he uses a tweet from Jordana where she's clearly joking as an actual reference shows how silly his entire argument is. LeafK1 (talk) 18:05, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment It has been already pointed out that this is not a majority vote so if I write Delete a hundred times it is not counted as a vote. Calling valid points silly will not change any minds. What will are facts and I presented those. Sterned (talk) 18:39, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment Sterned (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic even up till now. And in his own very words - Very few criminals would be guilty if we took their word for it. So a twitter statement is in no way credible. Fired or left, all are still processes of parting ways.KingMak1 (talk) 09:17, 25 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep As the article stands, the notability standard is met by the reliable and verifiable sources provided. Alansohn (talk) 03:22, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per very weak KEEP responses above and WP:NOTINHERITED. Endlessdan (talk) 19:36, 26 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.