Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elizabeth Shin


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was rename to Death of Elizabeth Shin. Nearly all !voters seem to agree that the information contained with-in has elements of an event. The consensus, even taking into account delete !voters who might not have revisted the discussion and thus might feel differently, seems to be that while it is an event, it is a notable event. Barkeep49 (talk) 03:25, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Elizabeth Shin

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Classic case of WP:BIO1E and WP:NOTMEMORIAL. While her death was tragic, she does not meet requirements for an article. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Rusf10 (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Mccapra (talk) 00:19, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete; a tragic accident, but neither the student, the event, or the lawsuit stemming from it rise above routine news coverage. TJRC (talk) 00:24, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per above and nom.   Oshawott 12  ==== Talk to me!  01:05, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Tragic but WP:NOTMEMORIAL....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 15:18, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Thsmi002 (talk) 11:30, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Ordinarily this would call for deletion - while the counterarguments against the WP:BIO1E-based  deletion are well taken, most people also consider WP:NOTNEWS a problem and having a lot of sources does not automatically invalidate that concern - but as it is only a headcount carries the delete argument and all non-deletes came in the last few days; thus relisting in case that there was a shift in consensus underway during the last few days.
 * Delete Per everyone else.Andrew Base (talk) 14:57, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia is not news.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:35, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete The accident is heart breaking, but neither the girl nor the event satisfy the conditions . Nikoo.Amini (talk) 00:09, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename I'm going to go against the grain here a bit on this one but I think while the person herself doesn't meet notability requirements, the situation and following coverage may. A quick Google related to the Shin v MIT lawsuit suggests that it may have been a notable enough event, with coverage continuing even in 2017. However I agree with above the Elizabeth herself is not notable enough. I would support a move to Shin vs Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a minor reorganization and addition of info to fit the title. I see that even recent suicides at MIT reference back to this case in news coverage. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 07:21, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename or Keep - The fire was definitely notable, with significant coverage in multiple reliable sources. Please bear in mind that WP:BIO1E states that if we had an article about this incident, then this page should be deleted and redirected to that article. But since we don't have such a page, this article is appropriate. So from a policy standpoint, the only two options I can see are (1) rework this to be a page about the incident or (2) keep. May His Shadow Fall Upon You     Talk  14:35, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename. The fire and its subsequent lawsuit were both notable. A single article either titled after the fire or after the lawsuit would be encyclopedic. Obviously any biographical information about Ms. Shin outside of that context would need to be removed.4meter4 (talk) 22:27, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename to Death of Elizabeth Shin. This event and its aftermath have attracted significant, persistent coverage in multiple independent reliable sources, satisfying WP:GNG. That's what this article is actually about, anyway, despite its title. The only biographical details it contains are reasonable background material. Madness Darkness 16:09, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:11, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge This is an MIT problem, not an Elizabeth Shin problem, having read the article. Trillfendi (talk) 16:20, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename and Keep. Per My Name is Madness. Lefcentreright  Talk  (plz ping) 16:27, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Rename and keep per some others. Sustained coverage overpowers WP:NOTNEWS. ミラP 00:54, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment- I oppose the new proposal to keep and rename. If we are now evaluating this as an event rather than a biography, then WP:LASTING applies. No one has identified a lasting effect of her death.--Rusf10 (talk) 03:08, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
 * A 2017 article referenced back to this case stating "A Massachusetts trial court judge ruled in 2005 that an MIT housemaster and dean could be held responsible for the death of a woman who lit herself on fire in her dorm room." and this 2018 article references the Shin case saying "The suicide of Elizabeth Shin at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2000, and the lawsuit that followed, prompted colleges and universities to engage in vigorous suicide-prevention efforts." Only a quick 5 minute Google search so I'm sure there's more out there. Also there was similar wide coverage of the suicide of Han Nguyen and following lawsuit at MIT, nyt, globe, reuters etc etc which I absolutely think could be put into a combined article here. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 21:05, 3 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep and Rename, meets WP:GNG and WP:EVENT with plenty of sources covering/discussing this, Shin's  death has led to significant and lasting changes in US educational institutions (as brought out by a number of editors above), agree that Death of Elizabeth Shin is an appropriate title for this article. Coolabahapple (talk) 00:10, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep and Rename as suggested, since the consequences have had lasting changes.Djflem (talk) 20:15, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BIO1E. Just having14 sources and concerning a well known educational institution does not make it an encyclopedic article. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:54, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename per My Name is Madness. Bookscale (talk) 11:09, 7 October 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.