Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ell & Nikki


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was snowball keep. Brand meister talk  23:18, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Ell & Nikki

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Even though they were put together for competing in Eurovision 2011 they are still separate artists and not really an official GROUP. A majority of the information here should be either placed on both of their own separate articles or place them inside the Azerbaijan in Eurovision 2011 one. Bleubeatle (talk) 05:48, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment - Ell & Nikki is not an official group. They are two artists/singers that were put together at the end of Milli Seçim Turu 2010 to represent Azerbaijan in Eurovision Song Contest 2011. They haven't done anything else together like record a new music material that suggests that they are a group. This article is an example of WP:BIO1E: "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate.". This is why we have Eldar Gasimov and Nigar Jamal. There is no need to have this. They should be treated as separate individuals who competed together for Eurovision 2011. Bleubeatle (talk) 06:12, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment – no need to !vote, by nominating an article for deletion you automatically endorse its deletion. Cheers. – Kosm  1  fent  07:14, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry my mistake. I haven't done this in a while.. I will change the Delete to Comment instead. I can still comment on the matter right? Bleubeatle (talk) 07:17, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course you can. :) – Kosm  1  fent  07:19, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - This is a significant duo that has won the Eurovision contest and deserves to have its own article, as a majority of followers would know them under this name. The two individuals concerned Eldar Gasimov and Nigar Jamal are also significant enough in their own right and their individual articles should be kept as well. The three articles can be edited in such a way as to avoid repetition. The individual pages can have a few sentences about the duo's win in Eurovision then refer the reader to the Ell & Nikki article for greater focus. Individual pages would cover more their other non-Eurovision careers werldwayd (talk) 06:35, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment - There is a similar situation to a Eurovision winning song, Rock 'n' Roll Kids, which was performed by two artists Paul Harrington and Charlie McGettigan. They do not have an article together as an ensemble simply because they are separate artists much like Eldar and Nigar here. Also, I think that we should treat Eldar Gasimov and Nigar Jamal as individual artists by linking their names whenever "Ell & Nikki" is mentioned. Perhaps have it in this format "Ell & Nikki". Bleubeatle (talk) 07:01, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep – I think the wrong article was nominated. Ell & Nikki are the winners of the Eurovision Song Contest 2011 and they must meet almost every criterion of WP:MUSICBIO, so deletion of this article is out of the question. However, for individual articles about each performer to be kept, notability must be proven individually, so a deletion discussion for Eldar Gasimov and Nigar Jamal would make much more sense. – Kosm  1  fent  07:14, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep The group meets MUSIC criteria 1, 2, 6, 9 and 12. It is immaterial how long the group was together or how formal their partnership was. Notability is not temporary.    Th e S te ve   09:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - clearly notable for reasons above. --Zymurgy (talk) 09:40, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep - As everyone has mentioned, this article and the individual articles Eldar Gasimov and Nigar Jamal; are all notable for so many reasons. A) the two solo artists performed together and won one of the globally well-known contests, B) in deleting the article would bear an impact to other articles such as ESC 2011, to which Ell & Nikki are linked to in regards to their performance as a duo, and C) if the duo article was to be deleted, then we'd need to start looking into other articles for duos, such as Ant & Dec.  Ant & Dec are a duo act, but they also have individual article, as each of them also do solo stuff which warrants having 3 articles for them.  So in that respect, having three articles here would also come under the same criteria.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  14:03, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - I agree with user Kosm1fent, the wrong article has been nominated. Their separate articles would have made more sense to place up for AfD even though I think those two articles would have been kept too. Clearly passes WP:MUSIC.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:48, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - They are notable have won eurovision. Possibly the wrong article has been nominated? --Chip123456 (talk) 16:44, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Azerbaijan-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 20:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 20:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep. Certainly notable. However, neither member is worthy of their own article yet. Looking at their articles, they seem to have done little of note outside Eurovision, and no mention of any of their solo music charting.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 22:58, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - My interpretation of the second paragraph of WP:BIO1E is that this article is appropriate, as the Eurovision Song Contest 2011 was highly significant, and their role in it as winners was also significant in its own right. That argument assumes that BIO1E is even applicable here, as an argument can be made that the national selection and post-win activities were events in their own right. I don't have an opinion on the notability of the individual articles at this point, although I will say that it may have been better to go through the talk page discussion route (e.g. use of ), before going to AfD, if going at all. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 17:40, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Comments

 * Reply to Tuzapicabit's comment - Both Eldar Gasimov (Ell) and Nigar Jamal (Nikki) have had other songs released as a solo artists, as well as done other work as individuals, and there are sources to show that Nikki has also done collaborations with other artists such as Dima Bilan. While, Eldar was also the co-host of Eurovision 2012.  Although it could be possible that editors in general have forgotten to update the articles with this information.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  23:03, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Wesley, I can not see a scenario were any of these three articles would be deleted. All three has notability and passes WP:MUSIC. But the argument has been that should any of the article be up for AfD then their individual article's should have been placed up for it. But that doesnt mean that those users agrees with deletion.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:45, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. OK, Eldar having presented the 2012 contest will give him notability, but I see none for Nigar. The fact that she has released solo music does not make her notable. If it goes on to chart, then fine, but according to her page it has not.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 03:03, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. I'm frantically searching on google for chart positions, but I can't read Azeri, so it is very difficult to understand what comes up on the results. If anyone here does know Azeri and is willing to fill in the gaps of chart positions on Nigar's page, then please do.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  03:50, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment- I believe that Running Scared's chart history can go under Nikki's article as well. She was one of the song's featured/ main artists after all so she does deserve the right to have this song under her discography in the future.Bleubeatle (talk) 05:18, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. I have found another article that seems to resemble Ell & Nikki's. They are Donna and Joseph McCaul who represented Ireland in Eurovision 2005. Although they were unsuccessful, they have done a lot of activities together after the event that were not related to their Eurovision participation. I'm not sure if Ell & Nikki have done anything else together that had nothing to do with their Eurovision victory.Bleubeatle (talk) 04:52, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. I think the nominator may have misunderstood the guidance on WP:BIO1E. From reading the information, BIO1E it is in regards to articles covering events.  The significant clue in BIO1E is the line which reads "When an individual is significant for his or her role in a single event, it may be unclear whether an article should be written about the individual, the event or both."  That means if someone has worked on an event only once, then it may be unclear whether to right an article about the person, event, or both.  If Ell and Nikki hadn't have won the contest, then yes a combined article wouldn't be justified.  However, as they did win the contest (a show which is notable in its own right), then a combined article is warranted.  Also, the same article fulfils all the criterion under WP:BLP1E.  The significance of an event or individual is indicated by how persistent the coverage is in reliable sources. It is important for editors to understand two clear differentiations of WP:BIO1E when compared to WP:BLP1E. Firstly, WP:BLP1E should be applied only to biographies of living people. Secondly, WP:BLP1E should be applied only to biographies of low-profile individuals.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  05:51, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Let's be honest here people, Ell/Nikki won the Eurovision 2011 the worlds biggest television music event. Neither this article nor their individual articles will be deleted. They all passes WP:MUSIC.--BabbaQ (talk) 11:03, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Exactly BabbaQ, I agree with every word you wrote. The number of people who have said "keep" should be a clear enough hint that his AFD was just a waste of time to begin with. (edit) I think the noble and probable decent thing to be done here seeing as it looks like there is a lot to be discussed, would be for the nominee to withdraw the AFD, and take the discussion over to the article's talk page, and then discuss the issues.  Wesley  ☀  Mouse  13:06, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with these guys. But then again I am an inclusionist to begin with --Zymurgy (talk) 20:35, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.