Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elvira Vinogradova (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. J04n(talk page) 19:50, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Elvira Vinogradova
AfDs for this article: 
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Unreferenced and no sources. Not sure if CSD or PROD is more appropriate, but figured AFD would get more attention and possible fixing of this article, if necessary. Sir Joseph (talk) 14:57, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of News media-related deletion discussions. Sir Joseph (talk)  14:59, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Sir Joseph (talk)  14:59, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * (changed to Delete) Coincidentally, I was just about to make an edit that removed the unsourced information when I saw that the article had been nominated for AfD. I was able to find that Elvira Vinogradova was awarded the Russian Order of Honour, so I think that the article should be kept. However, it is now a very short article. If someone could translate the tvkultura.ru page and the blurb from the Kremlin announcement, I can add more information. « D. Trebbien ( talk ) 15:07, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The Kremlin announcement is a list of television employees receiving state awards, with the coverage of Vinogradova just giving her job title. The tvkultura.ru page is an employee bio hosted by her employer, so not independent, and could be used to source uncontroversial biographical information but not to support notability. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 15:52, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per dtrebbien, the Russian Order of Honour confers notability.  Montanabw (talk)  06:24, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 03:08, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep, per dtrebbian. Also in the first AFD on this topic, it was noted that there were 100 Google hits in Russian, and then in discussion that those hits were of high quality. I added a couple micro-bits to the article. -- do  ncr  am  03:43, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Nobody said in the first discussion that the sources found by a Google search were of high quality. The closest thing to that is that one editor said that they were relevant, i.e. that they were about this Elvira Vinogradova rather than someone else with the same name. In the last ten years we've moved on from the position that we can keep an article, especially one about a living person, on the basis of a count of Google hits. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 17:58, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. North America1000 12:20, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Rather than closing this, I think further discussion on this would be better to generate clear consensus. st170e talk 00:23, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep have found some more sources regarding her award. --TheDomain (talk) 19:46, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete. The references given in the article contain barely one-word mentions of her. The Order of Honour is the third-lowest Russian order and is commonly given to fairly ordinary Russian bureaucrats. Her job title given in Ref no. 2 translates something like Section Head in the Studio of Culturological Programming of the Directorate of the Branch of ...  To me this suggests an apparatchick/bureaucrat rather than an actual creative professional. I did a fairly extensive Google search for her name in Russian and found very little. There are a few (very few) occasional brief mentions of her name in the media in relation to TV programming, but never anything substantive like an interview with her, or a profile of her, or even just an extended (a few paragraphs) quote of her opinions about something. I don't see anything here approaching passing WP:GNG. Nsk92 (talk) 01:49, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, st170e talk 00:23, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep, given that its one of the most important awards of the Russian Federation, and that there are indeed enough (high-quality) hits regarding her to be found (in Russian at least). - LouisAragon (talk) 02:15, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
 * The Order of Honour (Russia) is the 3-d lowest state order in precedence among state orders of Russia. There are only two orders below it, and thirteen above it. In fact, among the two orders below it, the Order of Friendship is reserved for foreign nationals, and the Order of Parental Glory is reserved for parents of exceptionally large families, a very special category. So de facto, the Order of Honour (Russia) is the lowest level state order open to most ordinary Russian citizens, It is not "one of the most important awards of the Russian Federation". I would like to know what you meant by "enough (high-quality) hits regarding her to be found (in Russian at least)". They are certainly not in evidence among the references cited in the article itself (those contain barely one-word mentions of her, except for her own official web page, which is a primary non-independent source. As I wrote above, being a native Russian speaker, I did attempt to look for references for her in Russian and found very little. Nsk92 (talk) 16:37, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
 * No evidence has been provided here or in the previous discussion that any of the sources found by a Google search are of high quality. See my comment on the talk page for my analysis of the Russian-language sources, as for some inexplicable reason I can post other comments here but the Mediawiki software refuses to save my edit when I try to post my delete opinion. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 17:58, 8 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm not convinced that this award is enough to meet the requirements of WP:ANYBIO. I'm no expert on the Russian honours system, but according to our list of orders, decorations, and medals of Russia this comes near the bottom of the pecking order of Russian honours: something like an MBE in the UK, which has always been held to be two or three levels below that needed for automatic notability. It may be that there are sources in Russian that show a pass of the general notability guideline, but, since I haven't used my Russian in anger for nearly forty years, it will take me some time to check them out. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 17:47, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment 86.17.222.157 is voting Delete, per their message on the talk page. « D. Trebbien ( talk ) 11:33, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment Pinging who is generally knowledgeable about Russian topics. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 05:05, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
 * She is likely not notable, but I have no time to look in detail now, will try to properly review the article in the evening.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:27, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete, I do not see any notability. She is basically a bureaucrat, the head of the archive film division at the Kultura TV, one of the national TV channels in Russia (out of about a dozen). In this role, she is often a program director, and sometimes gets cited in media (I was not able to find any interviews, but couple of dozens of attributed quotes). As noted above, the decoration is pretty routine.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:37, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete Quoted sources in Russian do not tell anything about her because there is nothing to tell, except only one fact: she received a medal, but this medal is not something really significant, as was already noted by people above. My very best wishes (talk) 02:08, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per Nsk92 and Ymblanter « D. Trebbien ( talk ) 14:11, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete Apparently not one of the more notable recipients of Order of Honour (Russia). If there is ever a list of such recipients a one line entry in there with the details currently in the article would be the best place for the current content. Aoziwe (talk) 12:38, 12 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.