Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Empyreal Destroyer


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Cirt (talk) 18:17, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Empyreal Destroyer

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Declined speedy; the article makes an assertion of notability. However, per WP:MUSIC I believe this band may fall below the notability bar. They are unsigned, and may have an album coming out at some point (likely a self-published release, though I can't be sure). While the last.fm site doesn't meet WP:RS (being a wiki), it does quote some magazine reviews; whether these constitute non-trivial coverage...? (tbh I haven't chased them up). Note that the last.fm article was also apparently written by the author of this article, and note the name (WP:COI). The other two refs are self-published and also unsuitable. EyeSerene talk 21:40, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

If the article makes an asserttion of notability then does it not meet the criteria for inclusion? Isn't one of the points for inclusion of a band an affirmation of the fact that they are noteworthy and represent that sub-genre of music... by being voted so by an independant publication (terrorizer Magazine) by the readers in 2007 and 2008? The release is not "self published" and I have been informed that it will be available in 4 territories (or continents if you prefer.. this can be chased by by looking up the Voiceprint label). You've also admitted here to not being sure on a matter you've called into question. The magazine reviews I believe do account as non-trivial coverage. The main reason being that these are magazines available to buy world wide... another matter you're unsure about. You an't really call something into question if you yourself are unsure and haven't chased it up... meant in a nice way here Im not picking a fight dude. what does my username have to do with anything? I believe the myspace is run by the band... making it a suitable source fromt he horses mouth so to speak. Im not too sure who wrote the fm article but it is probably based on general knowledge of the band gained from their official site and their myspace as well as articles in the past written by them. I could argue for every wiki article is we're not allowed to get info from a direct source. - Cyclonis12


 * Thanks for your response. The article asserts that the band is notable, but this is not the same as proving they're notable. If you take a look at WP:BAND, you'll see the notability criteria for bands. It seems to me that you're arguing that the band meets criteria 1 and 7. I'm not saying they don't, but we need proof from reliable sources that backs that up. Unfortunately you're right in saying that we're not supposed to get information from a direct (or primary) source. We can use such sources to write what someone says about themselves, but not for anything beyond that. The issue with your username is that you've edited no other articles (see WP:SPA), and Cyclonis is the name of a member of the band. This inidcates you may have a conflict of interest with the article subject; generally, if something is truly notable, someone unconnected with it will write about it. The ideal Wikipedia article is a neutral, balanced distillation of material in reliable secondary sources - I'm not saying these don't exist for Empyreal Destroyer, just that at present the article doesn't prove that they do. I hope that's clearer? What would help is some reliable sources - maybe links to those magazine reviews etc? EyeSerene talk 08:05, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

The criteria being in points 1 and 7 can be gained by ordering back issues of the magazine or contacting the magazine itself. Otherwise musician forums such as http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548301 could be used as secondary sources. Im pretty sure its just a case of "googling" for these articles. At the moment Im about to leave to go to Essex but will pick this up once I have time again. Im pretty new to this dude. Ive only been on wiki for a few weeks give me some time to get things done. My username comes from a love of transformers the movie. I will get those sources on here once I get free time to sift through google. --Cyclonis12 (talk) 21:18, 7 October 2009 (UTC) cyclonis12

Im not sure if these will help or not but here you go. http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=80475 http://www.brutalism.com/wb/pages/reviews/reviews-e/empyreal-destroyer.php http://www.heathenharvest.com/article.php?story=20071014062049101&mode=print http://www.live4metal.com/live-28.htm http://www.organart.demon.co.uk/neworgan172.htm http://www.schwermetall.ch/cdkritiken/kritik1714.php Unfirtunately I dont have scans or can find online scans of their appearance in Kerrang!, terrorizer, and metal Hammer, and Zero Tolerance Magazine, though there is evidence of it in numerous musician forums it seems. http://www.metalstormmag.com/modules.php?name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=11 That came up on the first 2 pages. Im sure theres more if I sift through more of it. --Cyclonis12 (talk) 21:17, 7 October 2009 (UTC) cyclonis12

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget  22:12, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Is this a country/western band? No? So I thought... Did they invent gunpowder, or perhaps saved the world? No ?! - delete. NVO (talk) 13:21, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - coverage in reliable sources is lacking. Terrorizo magazine notation is for being voted for something.  But in any case, that's very thin coverage. -- Whpq (talk) 17:05, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.