Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Engine (boogie-rock band)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   incubate to Article Incubator/Engine (boogie-rock band). This has been hanging on for four weeks now, with more sources constantly promised: the WP:Article Incubator will give its proponents another month to try to bring it up to standard. JohnCD (talk) 16:36, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Engine (boogie-rock band)

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Contested prod, concern was: "no evidence of notability". Looking through the article's references I don't see any citations that meet WP:BAND's criteria of non-trivial coverage in multiple reliable independent sources. If citations can be found for the features in Kerrang! or coverage in reliable sources of the band's national tours, that might be enough to establish notability. Otherwise I suggest deletion per WP:BAND. --Muchness (talk) 09:49, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete for now, no reliable sources that I can find at the moment, but this might warrant revising. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 02:02, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * As the author of this page, I think it would be pretty mean-spirited of you to delete it- particularly when I've gone to so much effort to gather information from as many sources as possible! I have also written to two of the bandmembers to request additional information from them, in order to upgrade the quality of the material I've included.  I thought Wikipedia was supposed to be about collating and distributing information in this manner?  Delete it if you must, but I think it would be a great shame; the reason I chose to describe this particular subject is because of the scarcity of information about this great little band elsewhere. Yehia Tawfik, 27/10/09, 15:36 UTC  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yehia.tawfik (talk • contribs) 15:37, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Certainly was not my intention to be mean-spirited in nominating the article for deletion, but all articles in Wikipedia have to meet a minimum threshold of notability and this band looks like a borderline case. Hopefully this AFD discussion can uncover some sources to more firmly establish notability. --Muchness (talk)


 * In that case can I please request a delay before deletion? I will attempt to uncover additional sources ASAP.  Many thanks.  -Yehia Tawfik  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.74.145.79 (talk) 07:30, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Tim Song (talk) 00:02, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Magazine reference and specific gig dates & details have now been added. Is this sufficient to merit non-deletion?  Please advise! - Yehia Tawfik  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yehia.tawfik (talk • contribs) 17:39, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1111686&op=1&o=global&view=global&subj=33090417824&id=727887322
 * Official band press release (c.1989) reproduced here:

Group modulator lists this item (and all other images at this site) as being in the public domain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yehia.tawfik (talk • contribs) 19:22, 8 November 2009 (UTC)  Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NW ( Talk ) 02:16, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

Comment - I am the author of the Facebook page and have the authority to upload material from the band themselves. I can also trace and upload a Kerrang review of their 'Autowreck' album which was given a 5 star review for "This whiskey soaked belter"Italic text —Preceding unsigned comment added by Berryfields1967 (talk • contribs) 20:19, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  — J04n(talk page) 03:46, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. No significant discussion of this band in any reliable source has come to light; notability cannot be verified. Drmies (talk) 04:52, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Compared to the majority of articles on other bands in Wikipedia, far more sources, links and references have been listed and cross-referenced in this case. Mentions in national magazines are evidence of notability, aren't they?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.74.145.79 (talk) 14:14, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Mentions rarely establish notability--WP:N requires significant, in-depth discussion in reliable sources. And what mention are you talking about--"a favourable write-up in Kerrang!"? I can't verify how favorable that write-up was, or how many paragraphs it contained, but if that is the only substantial reference in a reliable source, then that would not be enough to satisfy WP:N, no. What other articles have is not the topic of discussion here; if you find any that you think are less notable, feel free to propose deletion. Drmies (talk) 21:47, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. I would suggest that those seeing to reflect notabity take a deep breath, read WP:BAND carefully, and either add sources reflecting that it meets one or more of those criteria or point to existing sources that indicated that it meets one or more of those criteria (and which one or more criteria the article meets).--Epeefleche (talk) 22:09, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The guidelines have been read and please let everyone be assured that this article is still being worked on. Further resources do exist, but time is needed to collate them.  Hence the request for a delay in deletion.  Thankyou for re-listing.  On a seperate note, feedback for this article has been warm and positive from many different sources.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.74.145.79 (talk) 04:44, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. Contact has now been established with the drummer from the band who are the subject of this article, and press articles which will further cement notability will be forthcoming within days. Thankyou for your patience.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.74.145.79 (talk) 22:21, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Cunard (talk) 08:06, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

Well hello there! Ape here (or Diamond Dave if you prefer) once of the mighty ENGINE! Now galavanting all about the place with a cheery bunch of rockers called The Jalapenos (now in our 13th year!) Got your message, always great when people get back in touch so thanks for that. I'm gonna' try and send you a couple of jpegs in a few days time once I have had chance to sort it all out for you etc (4 gigs a week at the mo - so really busy.) As you may have noticed I am not on line very often, so please bear with me on this. Still seeing the lads from the 'old firm' on a fairly regular basis, usually Wad every couple of weeks and Yozzer every 3 or 4 months (he lives a lot further away from me.) Wad's doing well with Connie Lush - latest booking is a support to Buddy Guy. They may still yet get one in with Robert Cray too. Saw him play on a bill with Wilko Johnson recently and they were great - he has become an ace blues player - brill slide etc! He goes all over Europe with the group and has a blast. Yoz keeps his hand in with a local guy (to us) called Paul Kappa - think it's kappaband.com - he basically 'deps' when the usual bassist is not available. He recently did a tour of the north east of England with the band. However he has a full-time day job so can't commit to too much fun and games on the road! Anyway - I will get back in touch as soon as I can, cheers for now, Ape, AKA Diamond Dave.
 * Relisting comment: Per the recent comment above, I have relisted one final time to give those who are working on this article to provide press articles. Due to the fact that this band was active from 1979 - 1997, sources from old newspapers and magazines may be difficult to obtain. Therefore, one more week may be helpful for the editors of Engine (boogie-rock band) who are trying to collect sources. Cunard (talk) 08:06, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Advice to those who are working on this article: If you can uncover old newspapers and magazine that provide significant coverage in reliable sources about Engine, please scan the newspaper articles to your computer, and then upload them to Flickr or any other photo-sharing site. Then post the links to this AfD. Even if you already have an account on these sites, you should create another one if you don't want your real-world identity linked to your Wikipedia one. These sources must be independent of the band or its members. Myspace and Facebook do not aid in establishing notability. Press releases do not establish notability. Only coverage in books, magazines, or newspapers will establish notability. This coverage cannot be only passing mentions (eg. one or two sentences); it must be at least several paragraphs long. If reliable sources about this band cannot be found within the next seven days (by 24 November 2009), this article will be deleted. Cunard (talk) 08:06, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The article with its many references establishes without a doubt that the band existed--but none of them provide any kind of significant discussion of the band. Drmies (talk) 01:37, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree; however, there may be some print sources, which is why I relisted the article to give the new editors another week to provide sources. My opinion is to delete unless sources that establish notability are provided. Cunard (talk) 09:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks again. Watch this space! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.74.145.65 (talk) 13:55, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I have reviewed the sources in the article and the changes you have made but am unconvinced about the notability. To save this article from deletion, you must find independent reliable sources that provide significant coverage of this topic. So far, none of the references in the article has been able to satisfy this. Cunard (talk) 09:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's the score as of 20/11/2009: I live in the Middle East, and I'm trying to research a subject from the pre-Internet days, with a particularly difficult title to search on the Web. I have included every single source and reference that I have been able to find so far, plus my own background knowledge.  I know for a fact that items ascertaining notability exist (i.e. interviews and reviews with photographs in the mainstream music press), because I have them in my possession elsewhere.  However, at this late stage it seems probable that those who would like this article to be deleted are going to get their way; nothing else of significance has been forwarded to me - yet.  I hope to receive more material by your cut-off date; however, as this is now looking increasingly unlikely, could you please advise me whether I would be able to re-submit this material at a later date, once I have been able to augment it with additional sources?  Thankyou for your help, and my apologies for taking up anyone's time unnecessarily at Wikipedia.  The site is excellent, and I recognize the need for strict standards.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.74.145.65 (talk) 17:35, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * When the AfD debate is closed, the article will be deleted. If you would like, I will ask the closing admin to move the article to Article Incubator/Engine (boogie-rock band) so that the content will not be lost. Then, you can work on the article with the help of the editors who patrol the article incubator. Best, Cunard (talk) 17:47, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment (22/11) Just received the following message from the band's former drummer:
 * From the above, it looks like no extra material will be forthcoming before the cut-off date you stipulated, so I would indeed be grateful if you can put the page in the 'incubator' (whatever that is!) Many thanks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.74.145.65 (talk) 17:25, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Note to closing admin: Please incubate this article to Article Incubator/Engine (boogie-rock band) after you close this AfD. Thanks, Cunard (talk) 01:23, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Stop press! I've received a cache of press articles and listings for national tours which I can now reference to ascertain notability.  Problem: Flickr is banned where I live, so I can't post them there.  Solution: someone else is doing it for me, then I can post the links.  Getting there...!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.74.145.65 (talk) 15:43, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.