Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Engineering traditions in Canada


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Stifle (talk) 09:26, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Engineering traditions in Canada

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

appears to be a collection of sometimes poetic, never encyclopedic, anecdotes - doesn't appear to meet WP:NOTE Aurush kazeminitalk 16:19, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep. Three of the four entries appear to be backed up by other articles in Wikipedia (which doesn't automatically prove notability, but these articles would probably have failed AfD by now if they weren't notable). The article does need a lot of work, but I think it's salvageable. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 17:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. Article needs references and the removal of fluff/bias, but I still think it's a notable topic, engineering traditions having had a long history and significant impact on the lives of engineers in Canada.  If anything, I think the individual engineering traditions (such as iron ring) should be merged into this article.  TastyCakes (talk) 17:24, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Additionally, I think the article should be expanded to include mention of other, sometimes school specific, traditions. Right now the only real substance is on the iron ring and the calling of the engineers, which already have their own articles.  TastyCakes (talk) 17:27, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That's fine provided that everything you're thinking of adding to the list is notifiable and verifiable. The last thing we want is for an article to become a free-for-all for every major, minor, trivial and made-up-in-one-day tradition. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 17:32, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, anything added must be notable and clearly classed as "a tradition" TastyCakes (talk) 18:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - Seems like an arbitrary collection of facts and thoughts. Even if a good article could be made, which is questionable, I don't see how keeping this text would help.  It's so bad, I had to check history, thinking this must be a vandalized version of something better.  I realize merely being badly written isn't grounds for deletion.  If it was made clear what this was, then we could simple trim it down to a small stub.  But, if we trim out all the garbage, it would literally be empty. --Rob (talk) 21:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  01:06, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge the first three sections of this article to Iron Ring due to the redundant scope involved; that leaves the Certification section, but that isn't really an engineering "tradition" as such, and much of that seems too generic for its own article. Any bits of content specific to Canada may be better sourced and merged into other articles e.g. those which have links. It may be better to develop an Engineering in Canada article to collect notable country-specific traditions and practices, but there doesn't seem to be anything substantial at this point to maintain as a separate article. Dl2000 (talk) 04:16, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete This article can't be fixed. It's all original research.  Drvoke (talk) 17:32, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: Not sure what you think original research is, but it isn't all original research. There are reliable third party sources on all of them as far as I know.  TastyCakes (talk) 20:15, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Further, are you just here to show support for your anarchist buddies? Can't you guys have your own opinions for once?  I would have thought you "activists" would seek to avoid group think, mob mentality.  Also, if you started showing some independent thought I might stop thinking you guys were all socks of each other and spare us all the rigmarole of getting checkusers done.  TastyCakes (talk) 20:18, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep the banter off this talk page. If you've got some issue you need me to resolve, take it to my talk page.  Also, whatever happened to good faith? And also, nothing is cited in the article.  If it's not OR, add some cites.  I can't find anything for any of the assertions made in the article.  Of course, if you can't be bothered to clean up this page, maybe you don't have enough of an interest in it to be worried about whether it gets deleted(except because of who is nominating it). Drvoke (talk) 22:58, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I brought it up here because it applies here. The article doesn't have any citations, never mind OR ones, so it seems to me you just showed up and threw out some generic complaints to shore up your buddy.  As far as why I am here, I was the one who created the article in its current form (I moved it from somewhere else which I believe got deleted.)  It seems to me, therefore, that there is little mystery as to why Aurush nominated this article (or perhaps his numerous other AFDs for articles I have been involved with or created are mere coincidences?)  I am aware, however, of the problems in the article and so have assumed good faith on that matter.  TastyCakes (talk) 23:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

General Comment: Additional "traditions" I would say could be included here include Lady Godiva, (see here), various engineering jackets and various school traditions that are deemed noteworthy (UBC engineers hanging cars off of bridges comes to mind). TastyCakes (talk) 20:15, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment and Weak keep This appears to be about Engineering student traditions, not traditions of working engineers or P.Eng's....my father was an engineer, working in hydro construction; there were traditions associated with, for exampel, inauguration of new turbines and powerhouses (bottles of champagne broken etc) and dams (can't remember what, probably ribbon-snipping). So the title should make the specificaion of "student traditinos".....I'll reserve judgement/vote on this yet after I consider it; I can't see why it can't remain as an article, though; I see no compelling reason to delete it....as for engineering student traditions, the ESU at the University of British Columbia is famous/infamous for its Volkswagen beetle placements; on top or the carillon tower, suspended beneath teh Lions Gate Bridge etc....Skookum1 (talk) 14:14, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: I think it is all student traditions because mostly students have written the article so far, and they seem to be more documented in various media. It would be nice to have input from working engineers who could add traditions like you  mention.  TastyCakes (talk) 15:05, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment: I'm rather mystified at how this AFD has got three keeps, as I don't know what kind of article it is people want to keep.  It would be very helpful if those wanting this article, would write a proper lead for the article, which would make clear what the scope and purpose of the article is.  Once the article has a decent lead, if it's kept, than we can trim out anything lacking sources, lacking context, or off-topic.   --Rob (talk) 17:23, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.