Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Epesi


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Star  Mississippi  13:16, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Epesi

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Severe promotional language and primarily edited and created by User:Jtylek and User:Ktylek, who appear to be the developers of Epesi. Only sources are reviews and the installer. —asparagusus  (interaction)  sprouts!  14:47, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies and Products.  —asparagusus   (interaction)  sprouts!  14:47, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Jtylek has admitted to being Janusz Tylek, and thinks that because he donated to Wikipedia, we should keep the article. Also, here is the coincinding discussion on WP:COIN. —asparagusus   (interaction)  sprouts!  18:39, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Jtylek has started to edit the article again. —asparagusus   (interaction)  sprouts!  00:49, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Reading the talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jtylek
 * "Speedy deletion of Epesi BIM
 * A tag has been placed on Epesi BIM, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read our the guidelines on spam as well as the Wikipedia:Business' FAQ for more information.
 * If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Twinzor (talk) 13:49, 21 June 2008 (UTC)"
 * Note the part: "but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines"
 * I am not a wikipedia editor and do not follow changes in policies and guidelines. I am confused simply and start to feel like a victim of a scam. Jtylek (talk) 03:46, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I did not say that because i made monetary contributions to Wikipedia the article should not be deleted. Here is my full response:
 * Please do not delete the article.
 * I am the founder of the Epesi project working on it since 2006 as a way to pay back open source community and especially developers who gave birth to Linux, PHP, MySQL and countless other great software.
 * I will update it and ask for review to conform to community guidelines. If you can help me with that I will appreciate it very much.
 * Apparently: "Parts of this article reads like an advertisement..."
 * I will remove any parts that seem to be an ad with your guidance.
 * Epesi is free and open source software used by hundreds of organizations worldwide. We barely survive and struggle to provide updates to users for over 15 years now. Please note that approx. 80 percent of open source projects fail within a year. Lack of time and funding for the project, which is so common in FOSS world, is also a reason why the article has not been updated or better written. I see a conflict of interest in one public service project like Wikipedia not supporting other public service projects like Epesi released under MIT license, one of a very few applications running on LAMP stack that does not require a licensing module, monthly subscriptions etc. We have users with installations over 10 and 15 years old serving practically every business sector.
 * Maybe a prove of it's worthiness will be a fact that University of Engineering and Technology in Hanoi, Vietnam, is using Epesi CRM apparently as SIS (Student Information System), however without providing a required credit, thus illegally
 * [1]https://student.uet.vnu.edu.vn/
 * To compare reload the page and compare the source code for Epesi CRM demo:
 * [2]https://en.demo.epesicrm.com/
 * Many developers used Epesi CRM as a kickstarter for very elaborate ERP applications like:
 * [3]https://xsystems.io/
 * which was created by Georgi Hristov, Epesi contributor on Github.
 * I will remove all references and phrases that seem like a promotion or advertising. But please do not delete the article as Epesi is referenced in some scientific literature regarding FOSS ERP - here are two examples:
 * [Open_Source_Enterprise_Software][4]
 * [Open_Source_ERP_Systeme][5]
 * Removal of the page will be a great disfavor to potential users who can benefit from the software, who are predominantly small business owners and startups trying to come up with their own, home grown solutions. Our mission at Epesi is what I am doing professionally for over 30 years - making it easy for them.
 * With Regards,
 * Janusz Tylek
 * Epesi CRM project maintainer
 * P.S. I supported financially Wikipedia multiple times with donations in hundreds of dollars. I was under impression that Wikipedia's mission and goals and Epesi's are aligned and on the same supportive course. Jtylek (talk) 17:48, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Best Regards,
 * Janusz Tylek Jtylek (talk) 03:44, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, consensus on Wikipedia is generally that specific missions are not privileged with regards to inclusion guidelines, whether or not we find them a noble cause. However @Jtylek, while I am not familiar with the guidelines there or the expected style, so would not be much help transferring things there, the FSF's Free Software Directory would at first glance be a suitable project, though I would counsel discussing it with them before fully getting hopes up. The import function (again, at first glance) appears to be not available, so if intending to keep same content migration would be manual, but I can't see any single licenced text in the current article so there shouldn't be any copyright issues. If it meets their criteria, even if it ends in a delete here, which from the available sources it likely will, the content can at least find a new home. Best of luck. Alpha3031 (t • c) 14:00, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It is not about money but about supporting Open Source projects @Asparagusus
 * Why do Wikipedia editors find an article about the 17-year-old Free and Open Source project Epesi written in an inappropriate tone, not just edit it?
 * At the same time, we receive an offer of $1499 USD to write a new article about Epesi from Shawn Harrison of https://thewikiinc.com/. He wrote he is a Senior Wikipedia Editor. Why does he think the article about Epesi should be placed on Wikipedia?
 * How do you explain this familiar scenario?
 * https://www.quora.com/I-got-an-email-from-a-company-offering-to-start-a-Wikipedia-page-for-me-if-I-were-to-pay-them-1000-1500-dollars-What-kind-of-scam-is-this-or-is-this-a-genuine-service-that-Wikipedia-has-now-started-offering Ktylek (talk) 04:47, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Not only is the article promotional, your product is probably not notable per Wikipedia guidelines. Do not pay that person. The article will just get deleted and their account might be blocked. See WP:PAID. Also, that could just be a scam and the article might not be created. —asparagusus   (interaction)  sprouts!  20:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: I have also made a post on WP:COIN about the users. —asparagusus   (interaction)  sprouts!  14:48, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete: Sourcing I find in Google is SourceForge and Episi's website. NO mentions of the software in Gnews. I can't find reviews of it either. Oaktree b (talk) 15:48, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * They also submitted Episi BIM or CIM and it's been removed as a copyvio. All kinds of red flags here folks. Oaktree b (talk) 15:50, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Janusz,
 * Thanks for your response.
 * Let me explain to you as you can also see the tag on the top of your page, which states, "Tone or style may not reflect the encyclopedic tone used on Wikipedia," which comes Sep 2014. They have given you a warning to improve your article by excluding the promotional tone. The conclusion would be that your page will get deleted at any time soon.
 * Your page was also created by you or someone else in your company, which violates Wikipedia guidelines. It has to be done by a third party. A renowned Wikipedia editor, Oaktree b, put a comment on your page for deletion. You can view his editor account as well as the Barnstar that he has received from the Wikipedia community. Hence, your page is under the observation section by the Wiki moderators and admin.
 * Whatever we do, your page will get deleted. Another mistake that you have made is you recently attempted an edit on your page as your page is under surveillance. Again you're violating the COI policy of Wikipedia. This thing can lead to your entry being banned on Wikipedia and once they do, you can never make an entry under the name of Epesi.
 * What we are going to do over here is create your entry from scratch following Wikipedia standards.
 * Looking forward to hearing back from you.
 * Shawn Harrison
 * Snr. Wikipedia Consultant
 * https://thewikiinc.com/ Jtylek (talk) 00:52, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not know this individual. Oaktree b (talk) 22:48, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This was something that User:Jtylek copied from a scam website addressed to them. User:Jtylek’s name is Janusz. I understand the confusion. —asparagusus   (interaction)  sprouts!  23:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Shawn Harrison
 * Snr. Wikipedia Consultant
 * https://thewikiinc.com/ Jtylek (talk) 00:52, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not know this individual. Oaktree b (talk) 22:48, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This was something that User:Jtylek copied from a scam website addressed to them. User:Jtylek’s name is Janusz. I understand the confusion. —asparagusus   (interaction)  sprouts!  23:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This was something that User:Jtylek copied from a scam website addressed to them. User:Jtylek’s name is Janusz. I understand the confusion. —asparagusus   (interaction)  sprouts!  23:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete: Clearly an advertisement. Reads like the "about" page of a software project's website, not an encyclopedia article.  16:07, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Trafiła kosa na kamień... Jtylek (talk) 00:55, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete Blatantly promotional article about non-notable software. Jfire (talk) 04:14, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
 * https://www.reddit.com/r/ScamsEtc/comments/127ilte/wikipedia_consultancy_scam/ Jtylek (talk) 03:40, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Janusz,
 * Thanks for your response.
 * Well, as you are already aware of the situation and you have already noticed, your Wikipedia entry was already nominated for a speedy deletion process, and another editor has also voted against your entry, which is actually now making your case more critical and concerning if the immediate aren't taken at the right time. This new delete vote has also highlighted the concern of COI, which again is raising indications related to the violation of the neutrality guidelines of Wikipedia.
 * Now, the actions that can be taken in order to preserve and secure your entry is that your page requires voting from different Wikipedia editors/ bureaucrats in your favor in order to balance out the situation. Also, what we can do to save your entry further is that your entry requires additional editing in a proper, neutral manner. Also, the tone of the page needs to be improvised, and that thing must be eliminated, which is making your page promotional. Moreover, it also needs to be cited properly through the references that are currently available for which detailed research needs to be conducted.
 * These were some immediate actions that need to be taken as early as possible in order to save your entry. However, if you want us to assist you with your case, we can certainly guide you on the services that we provide. In addition, we can also assure you one more thing in case your entry gets deleted/ removed during the process, so we can also assist you with recreating your page from scratch in line with Wikipedia standards and protocols. Our main motive would be to protect and secure your initial entry first so the changes that we plan out can be implemented accordingly.
 * Lastly, if you wish to move forward I can get you started with the plan I have mentioned above, and our complete services will cost you $1,499 only.
 * Kindly confirm so I may get you started accordingly.
 * Shawn Harrison
 * Sr. Wikipedia Consultant
 * https://thewikiinc.com/ Jtylek (talk) 03:41, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I guess you can delete the page as I am not ready to pay $1,499 only!
 * What a scam! Jtylek (talk) 03:42, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That is not a Wikipedia employee. That is somebody from an external website trying to take advantage of you in this situation. Please ignore them. Even if you did pay them, they likely would not be able to help keep the article. miranda  3 19:28, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you @Maybeitsmir this is what I figured.
 * Trafiła kosa na kamień... Jtylek (talk) 01:08, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete A simple article describing the product, per normal practice for software product showing it was still under active development would have been ideal. Instead the originating WP:COI editor thought, why not try and promote it. I have no time for it.  scope_creep Talk  11:30, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This is a case of racketeering:
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeering
 * Racketeering is a type of organized crime in which the persons set up a coercive, fraudulent, extortionary, or otherwise illegal coordinated scheme or operation (a "racket") to repeatedly or consistently collect a profit.
 * Originally and often still specifically, racketeering may refer to an organized criminal act in which the perpetrators offer a service that will not be put into effect, offer a service to solve a nonexistent problem, or offer a service that solves a problem that would not exist without the racket. However, racketeers may offer an ostensibly effectual service to solve an existing problem. The traditional and historically most common example of such a racket is the "protection racket", in which racketeers offer to protect a business from robbery or vandalism; however, the racketeers will themselves coerce or threaten the business into accepting this service, often with the threat (implicit or otherwise) that failure to acquire the offered services will lead to the racketeers themselves contributing to the existing problem. In many cases, the potential problem may be caused by the same party that offers to solve it, but that fact may be concealed, with the intent to engender continual patronage. The protection racket is thus often a method of extortion, at least in practice.
 * https://www.reddit.com/r/ScamsEtc/comments/127ilte/wikipedia_consultancy_scam/
 * So here's an interesting scam that seems to be making the rounds.
 * This scam is very subtle, because some sites do seem to offer a legitimate variant.
 * Basically, certain websites appear to be claiming they can win anyone notoriety by offering to write Wikipedia pages for exorbitant sums of money.
 * Almost Definite Scam Sites
 * https://www.wikicounsellor.com/lp-offer
 * https://www.wikifederation.com/lp-offer
 * https://www.wikiproficiency.com/lp-new
 * https://www.thewikiinc.com/
 * https://www.wikisolutionsllc.com/
 * https://www.wikicreatorsllc.com/
 * Jtylek (talk) 00:47, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Jtylek (talk) 00:47, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.