Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Epic music


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. 's arguments that the sources, even the new ones suggested by, do not discuss the same specific genre of music are persuasive, and there are no other arguments to keep. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 14:41, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Epic music

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Only one source even mentions more than one "epic music" artist. All other sources talk about at most one artist in the genre. This can't satisfy WP:LISTN and it is best to use these sources on the individual artists' articles. w umbolo  ^^^  10:47, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 11:38, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 15:08, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete -- Article full of Original Research, primarily derived from one company, Immediate Music who may be pushing the term as a branding/marketing concept. "Epic music" is effectively the same as "Incidental music" and/or "film score", and mentions should be converted to such. -- LeflymanTalk 16:09, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete "Epic Music" is an invention of Immediate Music. All the sources are about how Immediate Music call music trailer music "Epic Music". This article is a thinly veiled attempt at promotion and mostly OR. – FenixFeather (talk) (Contribs) 23:43, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. A mess of original research. Looking at sourcing:
 * 1. No mention of epic music.
 * 2. Interview where someone states that some fans have started calling trailer music epic music.
 * 3. Interview with the head of a company that is trying to sell the concept of a separate genre.
 * 4. WNYC uses "epic music" in quotes then states so-called "epic music" and later refers to trailer music without quotes. This does not really support claims of a separate genre.
 * 5. Press release.
 * 6. Gearpatrol. One question touches on suggestions of a genre but does not go into real depth.
 * 7. "even though it's hard to say what the music really is - they don't have an "epic" genre category". is as close as this one gets.
 * 8. Facebook post
 * 9. Press release
 * 10. Press release
 * 11. "I’m an epic music guy, I mean stuff that you would hear in a movie, orchestra stuff, big movie soundtracks." Different to what the Wikipedia page is peddling.
 * 12. Not working for me.
 * 13. States that there is an Epic music scene, very little coverage
 * 14. This one actually does use the term a lot and tries a bit to describe it. Talking about a fan community.
 * 15. Says someone is one of the preeminent producers of Epic Music but says nothing else.
 * Sourcing does not support the article. Impression I get that it's fans calling Trailer music Epic music but we already have a page on trailer music. duffbeerforme (talk) 04:30, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

(I would advocate fixing the article's poor quality and keeping but Deletionist Wikipedia would never keep. Epic music is not limited to Film Scores or Trailer Music, and Film Scores/Trailer Music is not limited to Epic Music). Certainly not an invention of a single company. Commonly Used Music Terms in the Library of Congress Genre/Form Yale University - Epic Songs Epic Music Google - Returns Epic Music as a music Genre. Jamendo. What Makes Epic Music Article which does mention multiple artists; in the genre. Also see Discussion on what Epic Music is includes a description of what makes Epic Music "Harmony changes. From a cultural standpoint, there's a grab-bag of particular harmony changes most of us equate with epic: 1. An instrument (or instrument family, etc.) being highlighted in its upper register. 2. Oftentimes the climax at the moment where most people go "whoa...this is epic..." has an adjusted meter of some kind. Sometimes the music will go into a doubletime feel; in my opinion, this matches the human reaction of relaxation at a moment of climax. 3. There's often a common tone held over in at least one voice, but often it's highlighted and emphasized by the composer." and "Genre classification is always a tricky subject with a lot a subjectivity and cultural context attached. ...there seems to be grounds to use "epic" to categorize music that matches a certain set of expectations from music fans, not just the professional community, even if such music can come from different genres like classical, film, or production business music." Also in one of the article's citations, you will find the authors themselves do not consider their music trailer music or film music"[TSFW Composer] does not consider himself a trailer music composer, and strongly dislikes being lumped into a specific genre. Bergesen didn’t write “Final Frontier” for Two Steps From Hell to be used in a film trailer, but simply as one track on his own album, Sun, which he insists was not created to be shopped for trailers. “My focus has always been on creating good music,” Bergersen wrote in an email. “Whether the music works in a movie, a trailer, a video game, in someone’s home video, or on someone’s headphones in the gym, it really doesn’t matter to me.” Bergersen is part of a segment of musicians that interact and intersect with films, but also refuse to be defined by the silver screen" &eta;oian   &Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers  04:25, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge to Film Score. Edited:Strong Keep/Rewrite - See UCLA Approved PHD Paper, pdf page 10; 60-68, (pdf pages).
 * Comment: The use of "epic" in the links above is misleading:
 * The Yale library listing of "epic songs" actually refers to the usage of the descriptive for ethnographic music by the Library of Congress, the alternate name for which is "heroic songs" -- as in songs related to oral epics (e.g. Homeric epics.)
 * The "What Makes Epic Music" article has nothing to do with the claims of being a genre. The article uses the word "epic" as a subjective adjective, as defined in the first paragraph, "sometimes you truly bond with a special album, one where you are moved by the triumph of ambition and vision of the musician or band who made it." It lists examples like John Coltrane's jazz classic A Love Supreme. The article is about "era-defining music" and "concept albums" -- which is not at all what this article is about.
 * Likewise, the link to free music site Jamendo doesn't support the claims of the article: the term "epic" is not listed as a genre, but under the subjective descriptor of "Energetic Mood." In addition to listing genres, the Jamendo catalog sorts music according to "Moods": Happy; Energetic; Calm; Sad. It then further describes them in "Themes", such as, under "Happy": "Beach, Celebration, Cheerful, Kids, Electric, Holiday, Hopeful, Inspiring, Motivational, Uplifting, Sunny." -- LeflymanTalk 05:31, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I consider the article to be poorly written, Epic Music should be rewritten with the definition that it is a "cross-genre categorization of music" which some consider a genre of it's own. In Vietnam Musician Finds Grandeur in Epic Genre they specifically reference literary epics and is inspired by heroism, which ties to heroic songs. On the library of congress on, I agree that Epic Songs is under the broader category of Narrative Song for categorizing music. Your link is the wrong entry though, that's not for music, this is the correct one on the LoC. The wiki article should also touch on alternative definitions of an epic (such as heroic song). That doesn't mean the topic isn't notable, but rather the article is poorly written. In addition the what makes epic music article actually talks about &eta;oian  &Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers  06:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Here's another article which references multiple artists in the genre Epic Music Through the Ears of an Architect &eta;oian   &Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers  06:53, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Here's a Doctorate Paper on Epic Music approved by UCLA Music Department which goes into what makes epic music in detail  &eta;oian   &Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers  06:57, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Book on epic music genre (probably historical per the description of it in the paper) . SAE Institute on Alumnus Winning Awards in Epic Music Genre I'm going to go to bed, but if anyone is interested in fixing the article, you can see my scratchpad at User:Noian/Epic_Music. I likely won't be able to finish it since I'm too busy with work/masters program. &eta;oian   &Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers  07:18, 7 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The editor above seems to be including anything that has the words "epic" and "music" close together, as though they always refer to the claimed genre of "epic music." Perhaps he is not reading the actual content. The 2014 Dissertation linked is specifically about World of Warcraft's use of background music -- it's titled The Music of World of Warcraft, Lore of Epic Music. The abstract starts with, "Epic role playing games such as the World of Warcraft are accompanied by epic music which intensifies the players' in-game experience and sensations." This is, again, a descriptive use of "epic" as a subjective adjective, not a genre of music.


 * Likewise, the Amazon link to the Farsi language book, Epic and Music suffers the same problem: it's described as consisting of "five Chapters each of which covering a different aspect of music and epic in Persian context. The impact of musical form and Persian poetry is the first chapter of this book. This chapter provides the basics of Epical poem and music and its fundamental concepts written by Fatemeh Mirtaheri" This is about Persian epics and music not music for movie trailers. The editor should stop providing links that attempt to merge all uses of "epic" as though they are the same -- these do not support the article, and are effectively Original Research through Synthesis. -- LeflymanTalk
 * If you bothered to look at the sources you would see they are clearly talking about epic music, as a genre. You are willfully misinterpreting the sources by picking quotes out of context. Go look at the paper's table of contents and the section on epic music history. It clearly links how modern epic music is tied to historical epics, I'm not engaging in original research or synthesis. In fact, based on the articles I had read prior to the paper, I was of the opposite understanding (that they were 2 separate things). If you read the entire amazon summary it starts off with historical epics and music but it ends up talking about modern epic music (explicit that wording). Many other sources explicitly state epic music genre and they state it is not just trailer music.  &eta;oian   &Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers  00:20, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm just going to work on my article revision instead of wasting time arguing with folks who don't want to bother improving things. Don't go throw wikipedia policies at me as if I'm a newbie, I've been around on Wikipedia forever, not going to play the game of wikilawyering and constantly changing goal posts when I've found plenty of sources that counter the purported reason for deleting this article topic (however poorly written it is) &eta;oian   &Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers  01:23, 8 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.