Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ergo (newspaper)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:02, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Ergo (newspaper)

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Article about an obscure alternative student newspaper that seems to be based purely on someone's personal knowledge since there don't appear to be any sources that document its history. The one source currently in the article is from another student newspaper, and even that is just a brief description that doesn't specifically support the content for which it is cited. I was only able to find a few passing mentions in reliable sources (e.g., an author describing his own college years mentions writing for it). The most extended discussion about it that I could find was in Ayn Rand and Alienation, which is a self-published book (not a reliable source). RL0919 (talk) 00:21, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: I do see Greenberg's book in scores of university libraries ranging from California to South Africa. .--S. Rich (talk) 00:34, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 18:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 18:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete This is barely verifiable, so definitely isn't notable. Stowonthewolder (talk) 01:41, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment As RL0919 has found "the most extended discussion" in Ayn Rand and Alienation, I wonder what the discussion was. Dismissing the Greenberg as SPS is not getting to the meat of the content, especially in light of the decision of university librarians to include it in their collections. If Ayn Rand and Alienation does have verifiable content (which I think would be of some interest), I hope s/he will provide it.--S. Rich (talk) 02:00, 1 December 2012 (UTC) PS: Ergo is available around the country. See .  Except for Fullerton, I'm not near any of these libraries, so a look-see is not feasible at present.02:05, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I could dig the book out of whatever box I have it in, but "most extended" does not translate to "useful". The book describes an incident where an editor upset Ayn Rand by passing out the paper at one her appearances. So it tells us little that is relevant, even if it were to be accepted as a reliable source (which it definitely isn't, IMO). It is only "most extended" in comparison to the stark lack of coverage elsewhere. --RL0919 (talk) 02:08, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah-ha! AR & A has gone from an SPS publication (which, for unknown reasons, seems to be inherently unreliable) to one actually bought (or given), read, remembered (if only vaguely), and boxed away. But how do we address the fact that both AR&R and Ergo are maintained by reputable librarians as evidenced by the OCLC listings I've provided? (Don't take this the wrong way, RL, the fact that you've commented is appreciated. Moreover, it adds interest and spice to our discussion.--S. Rich (talk) 03:08, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It hasn't "gone from" anything. Greenberg's book is still self-published, regardless of whether I own a copy. And yes that makes it presumptively not a reliable source under the guidelines. The presence of something in a library (even a whopping 67 of them worldwide) doesn't necessarily make it reliable. Similarly, 10 libraries having some holding of the newspaper doesn't make it notable. --RL0919 (talk) 04:35, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * 1. I see that AR&A started off "from University of Michigan". While I don't know exactly what that means, perhaps it adds credence to Greenberg's scholarly status. 2. Presumptions are rebuttable. 3. Many (most) of the 67/10 libraries are university libraries. 4. Another source say Greenberg's book was published by "Bridgeberg Books" (I don't know what sort of house that is -- legitimate or of cards); 5. There is a review of AR&R in Reason magazine (again, I don't know if that helps). 5. Ergo, after all, was published at MIT, a school that has enjoyed some favor in the academic world. Ergo, I suggest we leave this start class article as is. Perhaps other editors will expand on it. (I've made a small effort by providing OCLCs.) --S. Rich (talk) 06:07, 3 December 2012 (UTC) Another thought -- perhaps we can merge Ergo into the MIT article. People interested in MIT history will see it and then expand upon it. 06:13, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The Google Books info says "original from" U of M is because that is where Google got the copy that they scanned, not because the university had anything to do with the book's publication. Greenberg describes himself in the book as a "poet" and is explicitly the publisher. He has no "scholarly status". The review in Reason was negative and suggested reading "serious thinkers" instead. In any case, bootstrapping speculation about this one non-reliable source doesn't create notability for Ergo. Even if Greenberg's book was usable, it doesn't contain enough information to support an article on the subject. --RL0919 (talk) 07:01, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Before I add my support to the nomination, what comment can you provide regarding Nelkin, Dorthy (1972). The university and military research: moral politics at M.I.T.. p. 106 "The Society of Radicals for Capitalism distributes 5,100 free copies of Ergo Newspaper weekly to the M.I.T. community. 13 "MIT and Military Capitalism," SACC Newsletter, September 26, 1969. ..."? --S. Rich (talk) 15:29, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks like a reliable source, but I don't have a copy, just the Google snippet you provided. If it is just the one sentence then I don't think that would meet the "significant coverage" criterion from WP:GNG. If it does provide significant coverage, then that would be one source. I think more would be needed, but it would be a start. --RL0919 (talk) 17:46, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Rats! You are the AR SME for WP, so I 'm surprised this isn't in one of your boxes. But it won't matter -- I've added the Ergo stuff to Traditions and student activities at MIT, so I'm happy to Support your afd nomination.--S. Rich (talk) 18:21, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator. Not Notable.Deathlibrarian (talk) 08:34, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.