Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ernst Lehrs


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep, withdrawn. ( As there are no dissenting opinions, it would have been ok to close yourself, but if you're uncomfortable with the procedure it's also perfectly ok to wait for an admin or uninvolved editor to do it for you.) —David Eppstein (talk) 08:46, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Ernst Lehrs

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Does not meet basic WP:PERSON notability guidelines as Lehrs never received any awards or recognition outside of Waldorf education which is itself an esoteric and fringe movement. Does not meet WP:ACADEMIC or WP:AUTHOR guidelines as multiple independent secondary or tertiary sources outside of the anthroposophical or waldorf education movement do not cite or note his work. Article has only 1or 2 legitimate sources discussing Lehrs, and they are fringe publications by anthroposophists. This gentleman would be notable on a Anthroposophy-specific wiki, but that is not what this is. This gentleman might be notable in a German-wiki, but that is not what this is. This is the english wikipedia and Ernst Lehrs did not live a notable enough life to have his own article on it. Shibboleth ink (♔ ♕) 02:34, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, withdrawn per ! Q: Do I have to wait for an admin or uninvolved editor to close this, or can I do it myself?-- Shibboleth ink (♔ ♕) 16:43, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Wow, thank you! I don't have experience of opening or closing AfDs, but from what I have seen on others, I think that if there are no Delete votes, you can close it yourself. More experienced editors may be able to confirm if this is the case. RebeccaGreen (talk) 17:04, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Keep WP:ANYBIO #3 Agathoclea (talk) 10:05, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep I think the nominator has misinterpreted WP:NACADEMIC, where #1 is "The person's research has had a significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed, as demonstrated by independent reliable sources." (my emphasis) - it does not say that the impact has to be outside the scholarly discipline, in this case "outside of the anthroposophical or Waldorf education movement". Also, the nominator refers to Waldorf education as "an esoteric and fringe movement", and yet the Wikipedia article says that "it has become the largest independent school movement in the world, with about 1,150 independent Waldorf schools, about 1,800 kindergartens and 646 centers for special education located in 75 countries" = hardly "fringe". The previous voter refers to WP:ANYBIO, where #3 states "The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field." We also have WP:BASIC, "received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject".
 * So, what evidence is there of Lehrs' impact in the field of Steiner education and anthroposophy, and/or of significant coverage? On the website Kulturimpuls, which researches anthroposophy, there is a biography of Lehrs (the first reference in the article). As the text can't be copied to translate it through Google Translate, I'll have to take a bit longer to read and understand it. This webpage on a wesbite about the cobblestone memorial plaques to victims of Nazism has information about Lehrs (including his birth name, Leopold Edgar - he took his father Ernst's name), about his mother, and about another Waldorf teacher. The book Between Occultism and Nazism: Anthroposophy and the Politics of Race in the Fascist Era  has a paragraph about Lehrs and his position in the school after Hitler became chancellor. Lehrs left Germany and ended up in Britain; there are articles in UK newspapers in 1940, 1941 and 1942 about talks he gave about Steiner philosophy, which mention his work in Germany and the work he was then doing at a school in Aberdeenshire. The Observer newspaper published a review of Lehrs' book Man or Matter in 1951; the journal Philosophy published a full two-page review in 1952; an article in The German Quarterly in 1969 on 'Goethe and Modern American Poets' mentions that T.S. Eliot was converted by Lehrs' Man or Matter (the source for this is Eliot's address 'Goethe as the Sage'). Even in sources in English, available online, there is enough coverage to say that he does meet WP:BASIC and WP:ANYBIO. The article could be improved by adding these references and incorporating more of the information available in these sources. RebeccaGreen (talk) 11:53, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The only other thing I wanted to say was regarding what you said about Waldorf schools being mainstream. You're certainly right that there are many of these schools around the world these days, but I think your estimation of them no longer being a fringe movement is misplaced. What makes something a fringe movement is not the quantity of its practitioners or wide spread nature of its outposts, but the perception and reality of its tenets as compared to mainstream ideas. Acupuncturists are everywhere these days, from the corner shop to the outlet mall just outside of town, probably numbering in the hundreds of thousands if not millions worldwide.
 * This quantity of practitioners doesn't make them any less of a fringe movement, because what Acupuncturists believe is still fringe science. The same is true of Waldorf schools. If the central tenets of Waldorf science education are still that animals evolved from human spiritual manifestations and that the four kingdoms of nature are "mineral, plant, animal, and man," then  Waldorf education is still a fringe theory. But I think you're right that the subject of this proposal, Mr. Lehrs, is notable enough given his widespread coverage in non-Waldorf news sources and widely-read print media as you've outlined above. So I still withdraw my nomination. I just wanted to clarify that particular point! Cheers, and thank you for the good work finding sources.-- Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 18:03, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed - I would not call either the science or the education mainstream, but the history, numbers and spread of the schools mean they are a fairly well established alternative education. RebeccaGreen (talk) 18:29, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Just a point of correction: #3 is "The person has an entry in the Dictionary of National Biography or similar publication." - saves a load of effort of analysing google book results. In this case I looked at the German DNB as he was German. Agathoclea (talk) 19:55, 30 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 02:34, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 02:34, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions.  Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 02:34, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Philosophy-related deletion discussions.  Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 02:39, 30 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.