Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Erwin Kreuz


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 07:00, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Erwin Kreuz

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Cute story of a traveller mistaking Bangor for San Francisco. Classic case of one event. Apart from the original event, no notability whatsoever. Crusio (talk) 15:28, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

I've expanded the article to make it less a 'cute story' and more demonstrative of Kreuz' status as a figure of modern folklore. I've also demonstrated that his notability didn't come only from the original event - his mistake - but the playing out of his celebrity, which lasted a number of years, and through a series of events, and still lasts as legend. Its even the subject of a recorded ballad by a folk singer. Kreuz remains a very well-known figure in Maine - much better-known than most of the figures I've written about for Wikipedia - and his story still re-surfaces in national media when recounting airline diversions.

I also tried to better convey in this latest version that, when strung out over a multi-year period, the story is less cute than poignent, cautionary, and maybe tragic (we don't know what ultimately happened to Kraus once he lost his job). I felt it important to add those last parts because the legend of Erwin Kreuz, as re-told in the 21st century, ignores the down-side of his celebrity. This was not as widely reported as the funny beginning and the feel-good middle. I'm aiming, in other words, for a more definite 'Story of Erwin Kreuz' than the one that remains in circulation, and think Wikipedia should be the platform for it.


 * Thanks for your original comment though, which challenged me to make the article better.Buskahegian (talk) 16:29, 16 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - not notable
 * Tentative Keep. Buskahegian has now made a good case for the lasting notability of this story. It may be that the story, rather than the person, is the notable thing here, but if so that would at most suggest a possible rename of this article, not its deletion.  However, it would improve the article and help to verify this conclusion if Buskahegian could please add on-line links the articles you've cited (where available), which among other things will assist other editors in considering the notability of the subject. --Arxiloxos (talk) 00:23, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  — -- Cirt (talk) 16:16, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * On Arxiloxos' suggestion I've improved the article by adding on-line links to most of the cited articles. The last section, arguing that Kreuz' notability outlived his original celebrity and passed into folklore (in this case the remembrance and occasional fictionalization of dramatic events long past), has also been augmented by more examples.Buskahegian (talk) 11:52, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Maine-related deletion discussions.  —Arxiloxos (talk) 14:38, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment I disagree about "lasting notability" having been shown. At best, this goes for the story, not the person. I could live with a short version of this story being merged into some Bangor-related article. --Crusio (talk) 09:06, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. He is just known for one event, but the event has gained sufficiently enduring coverage that sufficient notability has been demonstrated.-- Kubigula (talk) 04:53, 24 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.