Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/European Affairs

Non-notable grouping of members of the NationStates game. There are thousands of NationStates nations, and thousands of "continents", of which this is one. There is nothing notable about any of them. Full disclosure, I'm a member of NationStates. RickK 08:18, Aug 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * looks pretty impressive, but then I have no more idea about this kind of thing than I do about Thingymon stuff. If kept, it should be moved to something like "European Affairs (NationStates)", but I suspect this kind of stuff is better off on someone's fan site. --Ianb 11:38, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: Non-notable. We're talking about a segment of an online RPG, here.  By its nature, it has no empirical realty or permanence, and by definition it is a smallish phenomenon.  The article is well written, and it's quite in-depth, but if Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire were written about a fictional civilization, I'd have to vote delete on that as well.  Geogre 12:19, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I have no interest either way on this particular article, but Geogre, I'm trying to understand what you just said. I assume you are not saying that works of fiction are invalid topics for an encyclopedia -- I labored long and hard on Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius, and it's a featured article -- so what exactly are you saying? That we can only have articles about fictions created in traditional media and not those created by an ongoing collaboration? or what? How about Nicolas Bourbaki? -- Jmabel 17:10, Aug 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Of course not! Indeed, being a person who has studied fiction for a long time, I'm all for it.  What I was saying was fiction is less historical than reality.  A fiction that is online is less than one that has an empirical existence.  Finally, a commentary upon a fiction that is online is a step beyond that.  It was the sum of all three that made a grounds for deletion.  If Gibbon were writing a history about an online fiction, he, too, with all of his mastery, would be a secondary work on a non-empirical fiction.  Also, I was trying to say that the beauty of the writing cannot, by itself, make up for these things.  It's commendable, and it makes a valuable Wikipedian, but by itself it doesn't make the topic notable.  Sorry for writing so dramatically. Geogre 17:21, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Also, Jmabel, I would never say what we "cannot" have. I was only trying to explain my own reasoning for my own view.  There are plenty of fictional authors (e.g. Flann O'Brien and Myles na gCopaleen, both of which I worked on) who are great and wonderful, but fictions that are created in a non-empirical way have a greater burden, in my own thinking, than those that can be instantly verified by sitting in a library. Geogre 17:35, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. It's true that European Affairs is based on Europe, a region of NationStates.  However, it is not only the largest player-created region in NationStates, it has its own domain and server and generally keeps to itself; most actions taken in Europe have little to no effect on the rest of NationStates and vice versa.  I believe that if NationStates ceased to exist, European Affairs could easily keep going without NationStates.  Its general indepedence combined with its size makes it notable in my book.  Goobergunch [NationStates nation] 19:05, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, alas. I have to say that it's one of the best articles on an absolutely nonnotable I've ever read.  God bless their little hearts...  Postdlf 19:23, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, NationStates groups are not notable. At best, mention in the context of that article. -Sean Curtin 01:43, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * That would be somewhat impossible to do logically, because of their isolationism to the greater NationStates community - as far as the rest of NationStates is concerned, they don't really factor into importance. Goobergunch 16:31, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wile E. Heresiarch 02:10, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Ambi 03:36, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Delete. This is an online group of, what, 40 people? Well, at least they don't claim to be micronations... Average Earthman 09:32, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Actually, there are 561 registered users on their forums. Goobergunch 16:31, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I sincerely hope that you do not interpret any of this as prejudicial to the writing or the worthiness of the pursuit -- both of which I think are estimable. Rather this is meant, at least for my part, to be solely a question of whether the entity has sufficient notability that strangers to the group will be searching for information on it.  Geogre 20:58, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete microNationState. --Michael Snow 20:55, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * As the person who wrote the article, I want to say first that if this was not a relevant thing, I would not have bothered writing it at all. Regarding what Rick (the person who voted this deletion) said first, he may not have noted, but this community is, together with The New Meritocracy, the only NS region which has its own server and a devoted community which has worked hard to succeed. I think it deserves to have one article. It is not only an online community. Being almost as old as the game itself, it has almost lost all ties with the game itself. I dare to say that it is a huge board of political simulation and roleplaying which has little connection with the game. -- MiguelFC 22:52, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. It looks kinda interesting. Dmn / &#1332;&#1396;&#1398; 01:04, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. The heart says keep, but as Ianb said, "I suspect this kind of stuff is better off on someone's fan site."  Alexa Traffic Rank of 3,092,175.  SWAdair | Talk  08:45, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, I find I've heard of this game.--Plato 09:21, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. NationState regions are not encyclopedic and neither are websites with Alexa rank of 3,092,175. Andris 09:28, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * Merge or Delete. This may confuse people who seek to find information about historical events about European Affairs or for that matter, current events with European Affairs.  This article would be far more suited in expanding Jennifer Government: NationStates. - Allyunion 09:32, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have any problem in merging the article with the NationStates one. I'm only a bit afraid that members of other regions may protest. MiguelFC 12:06, 20 Aug 2004 UTC
 * Delete - Otherwise, every region in Nationstates will want to have a page. Not relevant in an encyclopaedia sense. I am also a NS player. So there. :-) However, I agree the content is good, but it belongs on their site not here. --bquanta 11:57, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)