Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/European English (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to English language in Europe. From the below discussion it is apparent that this article does not and cannot conform to our editing standards. &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  essay  // 15:39, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

European English
AfDs for this article: 
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No reliable sources to establish the existence of this term in linguistics. Lacks citations for even the most basic definition of the term (there used to be a citation which was a link to another Wikipedia article which didn't contain any mention of this subject). The article has been nominated for deletion back in 2005, but was kept on the condition that better sources could be found. Now 8 years later the article is in the same sorry state, and I have been unable to find any sources to verify the reason for the existance of this article. User:The Roman Candle suggested turning the article into a redirect to British English, I would support such a decision. --Saddhiyama (talk) 15:00, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:18, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:18, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep(?), but as disambiguation page This article has a rather complex history, which I suspect the nominator has not examined in detail. The current article is completely different from both the version that went into the 2005 AfD and the version that came out of it.
 * Ironically, a total rewrite of the article as effectively a disambiguation page during that AfD was possibly the best version of the page so far, but one of the entries (oddly, given subsequent events, the one to British English) was removed before the AfD had ended. The article remained as a disambiguation page, though with a number of changes, until The Roman Candle first edited out one of the two remaining entries in September last year and then converted it into a redirect to British English this May.
 * The present article is almost entirely the work of an IP last month. In his or her favour, they spotted that we don't have a proper article on the almost certainly notable topic of the use of English in European institutions (though European Union acronyms, jargon and working practices does part of the job rather poorly) and obviously put quite a lot of work into producing one. Against this, they misinterpreted their intended subject matter as a dialect like Indian English rather than a manual of style and a truckload of jargon not entirely unlike Wikipedian English (or some other version of English for Specific Purposes, and have included a lot of what amounts to WP:SYNTHESIS. They have also created European English (disambiguation) which, with a little more editing, would do what this article was doing between 2005 and 2012 at least as well.
 * So, what to do? European English is a reasonable enough, if ambiguous, search term that I think it should be a disambiguation page - though I'm not sure whether this is better done by reverting to a pre-2012 version of this page and amending it or by copying over European English (disambiguation) and amending that. And we could do with a page with a less ambiguous title on the usage of English in EU institutions that is rather more than the glossary given in European Union acronyms, jargon and working practices - this probably could be done with major surgery, and the introduction of a distinctly wider range of sources, to the current article, but it may (to my slight regret) be easier to start again from scratch. PWilkinson (talk) 22:28, 19 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment: Note that English language in Europe treats the broad concepts of English-speaking countries in Europe, use of English in other European countries, and the use of English as a lingua franca across European countries. Cnilep (talk) 11:43, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep as disambiguation page. I agree with PWilkinson. I also agree that the use of English in European institutions is notable but not adequately dealt with by European Union acronyms, jargon and working practices and that the current article would need a major rework to fulfil that need (too much original research and too much like an essay). Such an article should perhaps be named "European Union English". Oddly, neither article links to articles like Transposition (law), though some sort of list to help navigate to other articles on EU terms should be useful. --Boson (talk) 15:06, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 00:43, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete The article does not even assert that "European English" exists. It starts out by saying: "European English may refer to the English language as used by European organisations..." Redirect title to English language in Europe which has the info that readers are probably looking for in this article.  A parallel example would be an article on "United States Spanish." True, lots of people in the United States do speak Spanish but it's not the same for all of them. "Spanish language in the United States" would be a good article.BayShrimp (talk) 02:36, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * If this article was retitled to something like "Use of the English language by the European Union" it would take away my objection. BayShrimp (talk) 02:49, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete The subject of the article does not exist. For Wikipedia to have such an article, which at best is pure OR, goes against what the project stands for. I agree that articles such as 'Use of English in Europe' have some merit, but to proclaim the existence of so-called 'European English' is not the business of Wikipedia. The Roman Candle (talk) 18:57, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep It is a distinct topic, and the article seems to be based on sources. I agree, though, that it should be moved to European Union English or EU English.  DGG ( talk ) 00:16, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The definition contains no sources, thus the subject itself has questionable notability. It simply fails to establish that "European English" exists. A move would not solve any of those problems. --Saddhiyama (talk) 09:29, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 00:24, 9 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails verifiability. No references have been provided which clearly show that such a thing exists. Edison (talk) 03:47, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete or redirect to English language in Europe of which this is an unofficial, unrecognized, unsourced subset. Also delete or rename European English (disambiguation) to something like List of English dialects in Europe, as it does not follow the dab guidelines. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:10, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge to English language in Europe. There is some well-referenced information in here on use of English by non-native speakers in Europe, which the 'English language in Europe' article is sorely missing, but unfortunately it does not demonstrate that 'European English' is yet a phenomenon well-recognised enough in literature for it to be described as a dialect or collection of dialects; without this, the article treads dangerously close to original research or being a crystal ball on the use of English in Europe. I would also encourage the author at the IP address to register as a user; they certainly seem like they have a lot to contribute to the project, and I would hate to think that a potential contributor is feeling a victim of formal process and established norms. — Sasuke Sarutobi (talk) 11:09, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete - Fails verifiability. The subject of the article does not exist and there's nothing worth merging that isn't already in the target article. Redirecting to English language in Europe after deleting is fine. If someone want's the space for a disambiguation page after the page is deleted, that can be done as well. However, we already have European English (disambiguation), so there does not seem to be a need to turn this into a DAB page. -- Jreferee (talk) 04:28, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Redirect to British English. British English is, after all, the dialect of English used by European organizations whenever English is used. (Whereas American English is used by any organization probably throughout the Americas whenever there is occasion to use English, but certainly in the USA and Canada.) The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 07:26, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.