Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fábio Machado


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  MBisanz  talk 03:11, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Fábio Machado

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no references, fails WP:MUSICBIO Dlabtot (talk) 19:55, 1 April 2009 (UTC) 
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:03, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:00, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Reposting in the correct section: There are several references to this player on the media. Such as:
 * newspaper Diario de Noticias) at www.dnoticias.pt Feel free to search for more articles, I can mention this one for example: Article http://www.dnoticias.pt/Default.aspx?file_id=dn04010805091008
 * newspaper Jornal da Madeira, http://www.jornaldamadeira.pt/not2008.php?Seccao=10&id=105407

Published CDs and DVDs: http://www.madeiramandolinorchestra.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=39

Performances in national and international broadcast television and radio. Performances with renowned Orchestras such as http://www.teatrolafenice.it/ Kabrinsky (talk) 06:11, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per BLP - has been unsourced for months with no interest shown in sourcing it. Kevin (talk) 03:30, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And now there is sourcing. Kabrinsky (talk) 08:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The Diario de Noticias gives a nice detailed article, but the other links aren't good sources. The Jornal da Madeira might be a newspaper, but the link goes to a blog that recommends a couple of websites without giving any details about Fabio. madeiramandolinorchestra.com is not an independent source because Machado is part of the orchestra (to establish notability sources need to be independent) and the http://www.teatrolafenice.it/ website doesn't mention him at all. - Mgm|(talk) 09:30, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Madeira Mandolin Orchestra is an independent source, since Mr. Machado is no longer associated with them. Also I only gave some examples (feel free to browse for more), since someone mentioned that the article didn't comply with WP:MUSICBIO, however now it does since more than 1 valid reason has been given. And even if you personally don't want to consider the Madeira Mandolin Orchestra as independent source, the published CDs and DVDs with Mr. Machado as their First Mandolin and Soloist, comply with the MusicBio. Kabrinsky (talk) 09:46, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If the Madeira Mandolin Orchestra has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels, that would establish the notability of Madeira Mandolin Orchestra, not of Fábio Machado. Dlabtot (talk) 20:48, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Still fails guidelines.  Enigma msg  16:55, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Please elaborate. Kabrinsky (talk) 18:19, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The notability guideline WP:MUSICBIO lists 12 criteria; in order to be included in Wikipedia, a musician must meet at least one of these criteria. Fábio Machado does not. Dlabtot (talk) 18:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * According to WP:MUSICBIO ,
 * - the first criteria is "Has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable.[note 1] * This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles". As it has been posted, there are several articles regarding Fábio Machado in Diàrio de Notícias, the most important newspaper in Madeira Island. Website at www.dnoticias.pt
 * Also there have been 2 CDs and 1 DVD that are published and for sale in the stores. Remember that Fabio Machado is NOT the Madeira Mandolin Orchestra, therefore independent from them.
 * - Criteria 6 says "Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable". The Madeira Mandolin Orchestra is one the oldest in Europe and the oldest of it's kind in Portugal. The Orchestra "Teatro della Fenice" is well renowned as well.
 * - Criteria 7: read the articles published by the local newspapers (like the one already linked). The title of the article I linked means "Mandolinist shines in Europe", by an independent source.
 * - Criteria 10: Machado has performed several times in television and radio.
 * Just because you can't find it, it doesn't mean it does not exist. And yes, it's verifiable. Kabrinsky (talk) 19:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want your assertions to be taken seriously, you'll need to provide references. So far we have a reference to one non-trivial published work, and nothing else. Dlabtot (talk) 20:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

- Concert in Fashion Show at Amazonia - Changes to the MMO due to Fabio Machado's departure - Comments regarding Fabio Machado's playing and future - - Regarding Fabio Machado and Norberto Cruz studies in Italy - Artists that represent the Madeira in other countries - Comments from Norberto Cruz - Machado performs Paganini - Fabio Machado and Norberto Cruz involvement with the MSA - Importance of the work developed - Mandolinist shines in Europe - Comparison - Fabio Machado's activity in Germany - "Young Talents" Kabrinsky (talk) 21:42, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Some non-trivial published works:


 * Could you please stop putting bullet points in front of every comment you make? It makes it very difficult for people to follow the conversation.
 * It also is not really helpful to provide all these links that are not really about Fábio Machado, but where he is merely mentioned. If you really want the article to be retained, you need to actually improve it by adding references that fulfill the notability guideline. Dlabtot (talk) 21:54, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The references are there, and you should read the article instead of just tagging the name and see if the sentence is long or short. I don't know how to add the references to the article (making it readable and not just spammy). Is it just adding a link after a sentence, that relates to it? And are you trying to help or just to delete it? I really don't see any support. Kabrinsky (talk) 22:10, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I am trying to help Wikipedia by getting articles about subjects that don't meet our guidelines for notability, deleted. Such as this one. Dlabtot (talk) 22:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Good that there will be other users checking this; someone that will actually read it and not just scroll. Kabrinsky (talk) 22:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Please refrain from making further personal attacks against me, such as accusing me of 'not reading'. Our policies require us to assume good faith. Besides, attacking me will not in any way make Fábio Machado more notable. Dlabtot (talk) 22:19, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know what's your knowledge of the Portuguese language, however your comment makes me believe you did not read the articles. I have listed some references, and as it has been stated, there are 2 CDs and a DVD for sale (from an independent-source that isn't owned by Fábio Machado). It fulfills the criteria, even if you try to ignore it. Kabrinsky (talk) 22:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Your assertion that Fábio Machado is the subject of these articles is false. For example, the subject of the first link http://www.dnoticias.pt/Default.aspx?file_id=dn010804130704130704 is a fashion show. The subject of your second link http://www.dnoticias.pt/Default.aspx?file_id=dn010801081004081004 is concerts by Bandolins da Madeira. In both articles, Fábio Machado is mentioned in passing, but is not the subject of the articles. I assume that your false assertions concerning these links are not willful but stem from a misunderstanding of our policies. Dlabtot (talk) 22:37, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * For the benefit of other editors, I am providing links to auto-translated versions of these Portuguese links:
 * - Concert in Fashion Show at Amazonia autotranslated
 * - Changes to the MMO due to Fabio Machado's departure autotranslated
 * - Comments regarding Fabio Machado's playing and future autotranslated
 * - autotranslated
 * - Regarding Fabio Machado and Norberto Cruz studies in Italy autotranslated
 * - Artists that represent the Madeira in other countries autotranslated
 * - Comments from Norberto Cruz autotranslated
 * - Machado performs Paganini autotranslated
 * - Fabio Machado and Norberto Cruz involvement with the MSA autotranslated
 * - Importance of the work developed autotranslated
 * - Mandolinist shines in Europe autotranslated imho this is the only one that actually qualifies as non-trivial coverage. Another article like this and Mr. Machado would meet WP:MUSICBIO
 * - Comparison autotranslated
 * - Fabio Machado's activity in Germany autotranslated
 * - "Young Talents" autotranslated


 * Form your own judgements. Dlabtot (talk) 19:25, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Does the scan of a different newspaper article constitute enough proof? And if so, where should such a scan be hosted, in Wikipedia, or any other website (is it totally irrelevant)? I think I might get such document. Kabrinsky (talk) 12:29, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete: Dlabot is correct. The coverage for Machado appears to be trivial and partial. Notability not established sufficiently. JamesBurns (talk) 02:06, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.