Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fabio Massimo Cacciatori


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Speedy keep, nomination withdrawn (non-admin closure). --Lambiam 09:12, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Fabio Massimo Cacciatori
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WP:PROD during NPP was removed indicating objection to deletion. Article fails WP:GNG. Reads like a promotional announcement. Sources fails to show notability. As of this writing, 1 states he founded a consulting company, this statement is incorrect .. it s stated the he is admitted in the circle of entrepreneur that support start ups investing in them 2 is a city registry showing subject is a CEO and his salary, 3, 4 5, & 6 announce he was hired as CEO with short promotional bio, 7 that he resigned after 3 months. Awards: Rotary Paul Harris Fellow indicates only that a $1k donation was made; ... who wrote this note should read the wiki definition for the Paul harris honor ... the honor in europe is given for honors and not just donations the second is a blog & award is for supporting arts in the city. .. in a city with 100k inhabitants to be "ensign" means something as can be easily understood reading the names of the other persons in the list. None cover the subject in depth. None support notability of the subject as more than a successful businessman. Not a suitable subject for an encyclopedia. DocTree (talk) 23:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 19:44, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 19:45, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

For my opinion .. the question is when a detailed profile of a person should be included as public information. I suppose when in such a way i changed somethings in key organization. For example in one year Versace reversed its business cycle. Or a district of a key regain in a key country has been affected with specific moves like the district of digital creativity in Piedmont (09% of the GDP of the region). Or when technologies he has contributed to develop has been adopted as breakthrough technology in key organization as the virtual pipeline developed with Invensys for the US dept of energy. Or when the he is noticeable cross border. Or when he could be considered public face like when a producer is involved in key international film project. Italian Golden Globe, Venice jury prize, selection for Oscar, Donatello selection and so on .. maybe they are not enough to be considered as Scorsese but maybe they are enough to be considered person with public interest .. And when there is public interest ... the information is public relevant information and probably should be included in a project that give information not just historical but contemporary ones too. it cloud be relevant to read the last number of wired ... in the next future our relevance is the relevance that the people assign to us. when a search on google return a lot of references it means we should take into consideration this information. this is my opinion. An encyclopedia is evolving not just its content but the scope too to be adhesive to the evolution of needs. this is my opinion — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.116.171.211 (talk) 21:16, 8 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thankyou for your advice. As you can see, lots of refs have been created in the page. I'm going to add some others too. This is a "young" page. Personally, I don't think the page is a promotional announcement. I've created it to give the the most complete and objective information I could. I'm Italian, and I can tell you that Fabio Massimo Cacciatori is a well known Italian entrepreneur and producer in Italy, but also abroad. The Virtual Reality and Multi Media Park and the Lumiq Studios, of which Cacciatori is CEO, are important realities which work to create international productions. Try to find some of them in their Official Sites. Cacciatori also had public task in Italy (ex. he worked in Finpiemonte Partecipazioni, that is one of the most important realities with prevailing capital of the Piedmont Region). I think there are lots of people, businessman that act in the public, that have a Wikipedia page, dedicated to know some information about them. Cacciatori is one of them and it's not incorrect to write and make known his story and career. I hope you can appreciate some of the refs, in English language, which now cover the subject in depth. Sorry for my English. Thanking you again, I hope we can positively cooperate in the creation of the page. Cricriwiki (talk) 04:52, 9 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Article meets WP:GNG. It seems to me that there is evidence enough to highlight the notability of the subject. There are objective evidences that the subject has received significant attention from independent sources to support a claim of notability:
 * significant coverage;
 * reliable sources (Wall Street Journal, Guardian, the best-selling newspapers in Italy: Corriere della Sera e Repubblica, different languages: Italian, English, spanish,..)
 * secondary sources;
 * all material and sources are independent of the subject: no self-published material by the subject.

I think the material about the subject is written neutrally and based on high-quality reliable sources. --Neffa71 (talk) 09:59, 9 May 2012 (UTC)


 * KeepI agree. Article meets WP:GNG. Wall Street Journal, Guardian, Repubblica, Corriere della Sera, Milano Finanza, are all reliable source that confirm Cacciatori has covered different kinds of public and private offices. These sources are all free and independent of the subject. I have checked all the dates of the references: it can be seen as the subject has held various types of officec for a long period of time until today. Cricriwiki (talk) 14:03, 9 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment Cricriwiki, as author of the article, you are not eligible to vote.  See WP:COI. I, too, checked the sources you provided and none include substantial coverage of or information about Mr.Cacciatori. Most only mention him, such as the Wall Street Journal article about Versace where Mr.Cacciatori is mentioned in two sentences in the middle of the article.  Some include a very short promotional biography.  At least one that was added doesn't even mention him.  Please indicate at least one source with substantial coverage about Mr.Cacciatori to establish notability for WP:BIO and WP:GNG. DocTree (talk) 22:59, 9 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment DocTree, a curiosity, not a polemic: you are able to understand fully the articles in Italian? Because the coverage in these articles is very high. I remind you that sources are not required to be only in English.--Neffa71 (talk) 08:11, 10 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment I'm sorry DocTree, I had been confused about the chance to express a vote. Why don't you think the refs I provided are enough deep? I've spent lot's of my time to add all these sources and I've followed some of your advice too. The articles in the refs don't include promotional biography, but effectively explain what the subject usually does in his working life (ex. partecipation at international meetings, economic decision). Cricriwiki (talk) 13:27, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * None of the refs contain an article about Mr. Cacciatori. Most of the refs only mention him in one sentence.  Promotional announcements that he has a new job with a promotional biographical sketch are not substantial.  When a person is truly notable, newspapers, magazines and trade journals write feature articles about the person.  When I find a stub article in Wikipedia during a new page patrol, I check for references.  I willingly help stub articles by adding content and proper references.  An example is the article on Judy Smith.  In a minute of searching, I found many references in major newspapers, independent reviews of her book and government documents with official biographical and historical information.  I added structure, content and proper references to that article.  I searched and could not find one article about Mr. Cacciatori in either Italian or English.  The government document cited just includes his name in a list of company executives.  That many sources mention his name as he changes jobs is not substantial coverage of him.  If 30 newspapers and magazines include a company press release that Mr. Cacciatori accepted a new job, that is not substantial coverage.  If the same 30 sources write that he no longer works for the company three months later, that is also not substantial.  The number to times his name is mentioned or the number of times a promotional press release is repeated is not evidence of notability.  That his name is mentioned as a participant in a meeting is not substantial.  If you can point out any substantial newspaper, magazine or journal coverage of Mr. Cacciatori, I will gladly withdraw objection to an article about him in Wikipedia and will help improve the article about him. DocTree (talk) 16:15, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * DocTree, all the articles contains situations in which Cacciatori was activ part. They cite a situation, and Cacciatori was part of this situation. You cannot continue to affirm the same things. Do you really know Italian newspapers? This page has many more references to other pages. Please read all the italian articles. Cricriwiki (talk) 17:02, 10 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment I point out to those interested in the debate to read carefully the debate that was opened on the page of the film When the Night produced by Cacciatori, also nominated for deletion (View AfD) by user DocTree.The user uses the same arguments, but is forced by others wiki users to withdraw his nomination for deletion. Below, a small summary of the many comments: "The nominator might understand that non English sources are perfectly acceptable... And to his opinion that a topic covered in other parts of the world or only in other languages has no place in Wikipedia... that is NOT the way we build an encyclopedia. In actually being proactive in looking, it is easy to see that THIS topic has the requisite coverage in BOTH English and non-English sources ... we have multiple in-depth secondary coverage showing the topic as notable. And while these have not yet been used to expand the current stub, notability is dependent upon sources being available... and not upon their being used within an article. As it has been shown that we have plenty with which to improve this article, AND as it is no longer the poorly sourced content and context-lacking stub that was first brought to AFD, perhaps the nominator might consider a withdrawal?"--Neffa71 (talk) 08:33, 11 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment Yes Neffa71, I think the problem is that it is necessary to read and understand also the Italian articles to express an opinion. Encyclopedia is something universal. Cricriwiki (talk) 15:39, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Keep, Article meets WP:GNG. Well documented wiki, based on solid and worldwide accepted references (Repubblica, WSJ, CdS). Cacciatori is a well known italian etrepreneur that in the last decade has been devoted also to cinema productions. This makes him a relevant personality not only in the Italian community, but also for every interested user in cinema & digital animation. No needs to delete the wiki, that gather the most important information about someone that, having mostly foreing relations & projects, should be the link to other wiki's Maurito.ferrero (talk) 16:28, 9 May 2012 (UTC).


 * ADMINSTRATOR ATTENTION requested. Please check Neffa71 and Maurito.ferrero as possible WP:SOCK or WP:MEAT.  Their only activity in WP has been in direct relation to this article since it was nominated for deletion. Please also check the IP-address comment above that is a word-for-word, cut-and-paste of the first comment in Talk:Fabio_Massimo_Cacciatori.  DocTree (talk) 22:59, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment DocTree,the term meatpuppet is derogatory and should be used with care, in keeping with Wikipedia's civility policy. Because of the processes above, it may be counterproductive to directly accuse someone of being a "meatpuppet", and doing so will often only inflame the dispute. Keep the discussion on the facts, and the fact is to decide whether the page should be kept on the wiki or not.--Neffa71 (talk) 07:54, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

it seems clear that the word-for-word, cut-and-past is just a mistakes. Who wrote it in the talk intended just write the same in this section. We should consider sometime the intentions and not just the form of expression. or


 * keep It is difficult for me to understand what should be considered so relevant to be included in wiki. I see a person with outstanding reference in many business, social life, newspapers, academic papers, political involvement and so on, and at international level. Do anyone could consider it usefull? Personally i suppose 50% of the activities he has done are not relevant but the other 50% could be a reference about the story of a key brand in fashion, of industrial transformation in piedmont and of film production in Italy. In the end if i use a gauss curve with all content that we have in wiki, the information in this articles is close to the average of the value provided by wiki. I see it in this way.

bytheway mostly all the elements were used to request deletion seem to be superseded because the amendments done in the article and huge number of references — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alfabetait (talk • contribs) 23:24, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

keep. i'm not familiar with wiki procedures so I don't now how to endorse this article. But i doing research on italian start up business and i found this article relevant for my book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.215.38.251 (talk) 08:17, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep passes GNG requirements. Sources like this and this are surely reliable and not trivial. Cavarrone (talk) 16:26, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I Withdraw my Nomination of Fabio Massimo Cacciatori as an Article for Deletion. Thank you, Cavarrone, for finding an article that is both substantial and actually about Mr. Caccioatori that neither I nor others commenting here were able to find.  Please add http://archiviostorico.corriere.it/2010/gennaio/11/Alla_regia_Pininfarina_dalla_griffe_ce_0_100111030.shtml to the citations.  That citation along with less substantial citations adequately indicates the notability of Mr. Cacciatori.  The Wikipedia article needs clean-up to remove trivial citations where his name is only mentioned with no substantial information about him or his contributions but I now agree that Mr. Cacciatori does meed notability. DocTree (talk) 18:29, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The article is included between the references. Thankyou. Cricriwiki (talk) 19:30, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.