Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Faizan Shaikh


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Spartaz Humbug! 07:50, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Faizan Shaikh

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Fails WP:NACTOR squarely. can be located.Has partook in a television-serials, most of which were  non-trivial either.Co-hosting episodes of shows don't lend towards encyclopedic notability, either. &#x222F; WBG converse 14:09, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  &#x222F; WBG converse 14:10, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions.  &#x222F; WBG converse 14:10, 30 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete Actor does not appear to meet relevant notability guidelines and lacks non-trivial coverage from independent reliable sources. Steps were taken to locate sources WP:BEFORE this nomination, but were not successful. --Saqib (talk) 14:20, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * What did you find ? Atlantic306 (talk) 14:25, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * See my answer below. --Saqib (talk) 14:30, 30 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep passes WP:ENTERTAINER, has prominent roles in television series such as Suryaa, yes its under referenced at present but is nationally broadcast, also has roles in major feature films as confirmed by Dawn and co-hosts a national television show, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 14:27, 30 July 2018 (UTC) 14:25, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * He fails ENTERTAINER.. Though actor the was part of cast, but I can't see him playing prominent or major role in any TV serial or movie as this article claim. DAWN story says "The drama is supported by.... rising TV stars ... Faizan Shaikh." So I would say delete because WP:NotJustYet. --Saqib (talk) 14:31, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Passes WP:ENTERTAINER major role in national TV series Suryaa and co- hosting a national tv show, and why were you doing a WP:Before the nomination when you didnt nominate it ? Atlantic306 (talk) 14:37, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Salam Zindagi is a non-notable morning show. What is Suryaa? You meant Saaya (Geo TV)? You need to provide a source which verifies Faizan played major role in this TV serial. I was supposed to say "Steps were taken to locate sources WP:BEFORE this comment...". WP:NACTOR says "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions." I don't see significant roles in multiple notable films, and television shows. --Saqib (talk) 14:54, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Salam Zindagi should be notable as a national TV station programme, that it does not have an article is an example of systemic bias not necessarily a notability issue. Atlantic306 (talk) 22:01, 30 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep the actor has worked in prominent and major roles in a number of series, is a host(co-host,actually) on a tv show Knightrises10 (talk) 14:55, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Was it deliberately done? --Saqib (talk) 14:58, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Was it deliberately done? --Saqib (talk) 14:58, 30 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom, there is no evidence in reliable sources that he played a significant role in multiple notable films or television shows and no significant coverage in reliable sources. I'm wondering how it even passes the AfC process. There were only 3 reliable sources were present at the time it was moved into mainspace and all three were passing name-check mentions but we generally seek more than that before reviewing an article and before putting it in mainspace. There is still no evidence of his modelling career and no source to support his role in the films so fails WP:NACTOR and general notability guideline. GSS (talk |c|em ) 15:39, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * An article does not have to be perfect to pass AFC, it can be a work in progress, having mentions in 3 reliable sources is a good starting point . Have you any evidence of your source searches? such as in Urdu ? or don't you bother with Urdu ? As the television channels themselves reference him to have prominent roles they are reliable sources for that information and show that he passes WP:NACTOR or are you suggesting that the tv channels falsify their credits? Also have you or Saqib ever disagreed with the nominator or each other at AFD, I can't recall any of you ever having a contrary opinion let alone voting! in opposition, certainly this year at least, not that there is anything wrong at all in having similar views and supporting each other but such an obvious trait should be afforded less weight at AFD,thanks Atlantic306 (talk)
 * For that case I don't think I have ever voted in contrarian lines either.Saqib, GSS snd I seem to share a relatively strict interpretation of our notability guidelines and choose to base our nominations and !votes on what can be found rather than what might be found, unlike you.I've not much idea about what do you mean about according less weight....... &#x222F; WBG converse 03:21, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
 * On a side note, significant role in multiple films/serials.Precedent has shown that whilst a few (4/5) films with sub-significant roles are usually enough,the bar for television actord are much higher.We ain't IMDB. &#x222F; WBG converse 03:21, 31 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Do I or anyone else have to disagree with something which is nowhere passes our notability criteria? and have you ever disagreed with someone who nominates Editor 2050's articles for deletion? even though if I nominate any of his articles for deletion you will be the first person to add keep !vote whether the subject is notable or not, I don't want to go into all this bullshit but I must say you should take our notability guidelines more seriously especially before helping undisclosed paid editors to reach their target. I have plenty of evidence of my search in Urdu but I don't think it's safe to add a screenshot of my browsing history here is it? I remember once John Pack Lambert said we need to tighten our guidelines on actor notability, and film notability as well. At one point it seems that Wikipedia was trying to be a carbon copy of IMDb and I think we should take it seriously now. GSS (talk |c|em ) 05:45, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Regarding Editor 2050 I actually had some edit wars with him, where he redirected some other editor's film articles and I reverted him, then he redirected again, and regarding the quoted editor JPL I don't think he'd object to being called a diehard deletionist, also as imdb is unreliable they shouldn't be relied on for alternative coverage to Wikipedia, thanks Atlantic306 21:53, 31 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment the article creator has added some extra references such as this reliable source review from Dawn here which shows Faizan Shaikh had a leading role in a national prime-time series and this reference (rs unsure) shows another leading role on national television here. This guy definitely passes WP:NACTOR which applies without prejudice to television in the same way as film and theatre for two prominent roles and he has at least 3/4 counting the tv hosting on a national television show, thanks Atlantic306 (talk)
 * Comment the article creator has also added this Dawn story that confirms one of Shaikh's leading roles, and this Dawn review shows he had a leading role in a notable theatre production, and this source shows another notable theatre production role Express Tribune, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 20:11, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment (non voter)  would WP:Too soon apply to Faizan Shaikh? JC7V  <em style="font-family:Ebrima;color:Purple">-constructive zone  23:23, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. His roles are so minor that they are red shirts, supporting cast, or so far down on the list of cast that I almost couldn't find him. Bearian (talk) 20:47, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The role on this film was minor, but what about other TV serials and plays? You can check the references too, which are from Dawn and Tribune. He is also a co-host on a TV show


 * please read the references, he has leading roles in at least two national television series Atlantic306 (talk) 19:15, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete for subject failing WP:NACTOR. -The Gnome (talk) 11:08, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
 * it clearly passes WP:NACTOR as you can see from the sources. Kindly read the article first, not what the nominator said, because I improved the article later. The actor has significant roles in multiple TV serials and stage performances. Knightrises10 (talk) 13:30, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I see now he's had a lead (but not starring) role in two TV shows, but they are (as of yet) short-lived. Can you find more significant coverage of this actor? Bearian (talk) 19:32, 8 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep This one passes WP:GNG and satisfies 'What Wikipedia is not' conditions too. It does not necessarily have to be according to everyone's interpretation of WP:NACTOR. Dial911 (talk) 16:21, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 * This "satisfies WP:NOT"?!? In what way? Could you please elaborate? -The Gnome (talk) 05:26, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * It doesn't read like advertisement, opinion or scandal mongering. Though there is always room for improvement. The fact is that this guy has roles in national level shows, however, some sources are primary. But there are 2 references from Dawn Newspaper that significantly talked about this person. There might be more in different languages (Urdu, Hindi etc.). Dial911 (talk) 17:00, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The fact that an article does not violate policy about advertising or whatever is not a reason by itself to keep it! (And since this is the silly season I'll recall a joke by Chris Rock about a friend of his who was bragging that he was a good person because he'd never been in jail. "You're supposed not to go to jail, man," Rock said. "So you stayed out of jail, good for you. What you want, a cookie?!")  Come on. -The Gnome (talk) 15:28, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I also said there are references that make this pass GNG. But you were busy cracking jokes. Dial911 (talk) 15:32, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
 * You gave two reasons for Keeping the article. I pointed out that one of them is invalid. You probably believe that you are entitled to either getting a response on all the reasons you present or not getting a response at all. But this is not how it works, I'm afraid, not here and not in any real-life discussion either. When someone presents arguments on an issue and a falsehood is pointed out among the arguments, the response cannot be "Well, what about my other points?" - not before addressing the falsehood first. The Gnome (talk) 06:58, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   08:38, 10 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep This article has a total of 14 references. Out of those, 5 of them are from a reliable major English-language newspaper Dawn (newspaper). 2 of them are from another reliable newspaper The Express Tribune. Two references are from Geo TV and ARY Digital TV websites. I checked all the references, they are all working links now. I replaced the only non-working link with a working one. Seems to me there is enough there to establish this actor's notability. Ngrewal1 (talk) 01:49, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Again with the argument about "many references"! In reality, an article could have the greatest number of references a Wikipedia page ever had and still be a legitimate candidate for deletion. Wikipedia has specific criteria for the quality (reliability) of sources and piling up one hundred unreliable sources does not add up to the required level verifiablity of the subject's worthiness or notability. -The Gnome (talk) 06:58, 17 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Elaboration on my !vote, above: After my Delete suggestion, someone responded that contrary to what I wrote the subject does pass WP:NACTOR. Another editor claimed that "this [AfD] does not necessarily have to be according to everyone's interpretation of WP:NACTOR," and I find truly hard to believe someone would actually claim such a thing: If everyone's interpretation of WP:NACTOR is xyz, then going against interpretation xyz would be almost every time wrong.
 * Now, about WP:NACTOR. The guideline is quite straightforward: [The subject must have] had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions. (We can forget about [having] a large fan base or a significant "cult" following or [having]s made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment. These do not exist.)
 * Well, according to sources so far, Faizan Shaikh has never played a leading role in the cinema. (The text adimts as much : "Shaikh had roles in films, which include the role of Muneer in the film Maalik. The next year, he also played a role in the film Parchi.")
 * And on the basis of sources and the Wikipedia articles about this field, he has played at best a few of what barely pass as leading roles in television. (The article states: "He started his drama career by playing supporting role in the serial Mann Ke Moti. He has also worked in drama serials such as Riffat Aapa ki Bahuein, and also appeared in a lead role in Mera Naam Yousuf Hai. He was appreciated for his lead role as Pyaare in comedy sitcom Ready Steady Go. He has also worked in a lead role in drama Main aur Tum 2.0.") So, the only claims about "leading roles" are for three series. Well, out of the 20 episodes of Mera Naam Yousuf Hai, the subject appears in less than half of them. His role is obviously not a lead one, then, but at best a supporting or recurring role. In Main aur Tum 2.0, Shaikh is one of the four protagonists, indeed. For Ready, Steady, Go we have the source cited informing us that "Faizan Shaikh as well as Maham Amir bring their own charm to the sitcom but the star without any doubt is Aadi Adeel whose name is even making us smile now." Lastly, it is claimed that Faizan's "co-host" of the TV morning show Salam Zindagi but he's not a leading host; he's in a supporting role. (Source)
 * So, there we have it: An ex-model starting out in TV and films, with a couple of leads in television. All in all, let's graciously invoke WP:TOOSOON. -The Gnome (talk) 06:58, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * First of all, by co-host it means that he is one of the two hosts in the TV show. The other one is Faisal Qureshi, who is also known to be a co-host of the show. As for Ready Steady Go, there were two lead roles, Maham Amir and Faizan Shaikh while Aadi Adeel was among leads, but not starring. It was a funny sitcom, and by making us smile, it mainly refers to the humour he passed. You didn't watch the show, did you? Although there is a no source proving his lead negative role in Ghairat, that cannot be called the mistake of the actor.Knightrises10 (talk) 07:29, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * They are not equal co-hosts and this is demonstrated by the way they are listed (and photographed) in the source articles. And no, I have not watched Ready, Steady, Go, sorry. I have also commented on articles about athletes without having seen them compete. Have I sinned? -The Gnome (talk) 08:02, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:NACTOR also says that the actor should have had multiple significant roles in stage performances. Those roles are included in the article, and you completely ignored it. Knightrises10 (talk) 08:39, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Are you paying attention? For theatre, as you wrote, WP:NACTOR demands significant roles in multiple stage performances, and those one assumes are more than a couple of plays. It's so obvious the subject actor does not meet the criterion that I did not find it necessary to point it out. But since you brought it up anyway, I oblige. -The Gnome (talk) 11:55, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The source the Gnome quoted about the hosting is of questionable reliability and basing a decision about the hosting on the way the photographs are used and listings is tenuous at best. Also, being one of the four leading roles in a national prime-time TV series is a prominent and significant role for WP:NACTOR, and terms such as protagonist are deprecated in Wikipedia, he also has leading roles in two other national television series and where a source says one of the leading actors is the real star that is obviously a subjective judgement in praise of that particular actor and has nothing to do with the cast order, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 13:20, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete – Hasn't starred in any major films or TV shows. Per nom / fails WP:NACTOR. <b style="color:#3399FF">Redditaddict</b><b style="color:#339900">6</b><b style="color:#3399FF">9</b> 08:22, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 09:26, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
 * He easily passes WP:NACTOR with multiple leading roles in national television productions, as confirmed in the sources, co-hosting a national television series and having leading roles in stageplays that have been reviewed in the national press. TV and stage roles are in combination for WP:NACTOR not treated seperately. He also has coverage in two national newspaper reliable sources, so WP:NACTOR is easily passed, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 13:02, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
 * how did you say that he hasn't starred in any television show when the sources clearly mention it? It seems you just commented without even looking at the article. Knightrises10 (talk) 20:59, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
 * My bad, I meant major roles in TV shows–only minor roles. <b style="color:#3399FF">Redditaddict</b><b style="color:#339900">6</b><b style="color:#3399FF">9</b> 05:24, 19 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment : It has become obvious that a few contributors do not understand the meaning of the word "multiple," as in, for example, significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions. Very strange this. -The Gnome (talk) 21:39, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Reply I've looked at the Dawn and Express Tribune articles, and they appear to be passing mentions, concentrating more on the shows. Can you provide the most significant mentions that you think contributes to WP:SIGCOV? I'll be withholding my !vote until someone evaluates the sources available.— Alpha3031 (t • c) 05:57, 20 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.