Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Federer–Hewitt rivalry


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Note to Rlendog: The articles you refer to are not under discussion here and would need to be nominated seperately.  Sandstein  06:44, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Federer–Hewitt rivalry

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

This article is not notable and is part of a recent proliferation of these unnotable rivalry pages. Chidel (talk) 23:15, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Furher information: here's the list of more "rivalries" to come. NVO (talk) 23:32, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Wow, a list of matches two individuals played against each other! I'm convinced that this makes a notable rivalry!! Wait, no I'm not. Resolute 02:06, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete As with any other article, the question is whether the subject is notable. The Federer–Nadal rivalry is demonstrably notable.  On the other hand, Roger Federer and Lleyton Hewitt is not.  According to the article, they've only met in two finals, with the 2004 U.S. Open being the more notable of the two.  It's obvious where this project is going; suffice to say that multiple meetings are not a "rivalry".  As a comparison, there are 16 individual NFL rivalry articles, 15 for the NBA, 19 for baseball... and 27 so far on this tennis project.  Show some restraint, racketfans.  Mandsford (talk) 03:02, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * To be fair, your last point is an apples to oranges comparison. There are only 32 NFL teams, and 30 MLB, NBA and NHL teams.  There are more tennis players in a single minor ATP/WTA event than that, so it is logical that there would be more rivalries.  Your first point is where this article falls down, however.  I wonder if the tennis project can demonstrate that a rivalry between Federer and Hewitt has recieved non-trivial coverage in multiple reliable sources? Resolute 04:55, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 03:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. The Federer–Hewitt rivalry may not be as notable as a Borg-Conners or a Sampras-Agassi or even a Becker-Edberg rivalry, but there are few sources that discuss Federer–Hewitt rivalry, , . Salih  ( talk ) 05:46, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per Mandsford and others. Multiple matches, especially at the men's Top Ten level where everyone plays everyone else on a regular basis, does not a rivalry make. SpikeJones (talk) 15:12, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: expanding on NVO's comment above, we may need to consider AfD'ing many (but not all) of these rivalry pages as well. As mentioned on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tennis, there has been talk about a mass AfD procedure, but I haven't seen it come to fruition yet. SpikeJones (talk) 15:23, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Discussed. The suggestion was put forth on the discussion page for quite some time. Some encouragement was given on the basis of much sourcing. I personally think there are enough reliable sources to create a Federer-Hewitt rivalry. They've met 23 times over the span of a decade. More than any other active player right now (correct me if I'm wrong), even more that Roddick. While only playing one final against each other in GrandSlams have played 2 semi-finals and 1 quarter finals. In the 1000 Masters, 1 Finals, 4 Semi-Finals and 2 Quarter Finals. And one Final and semi-finals for the TMC.

However, if those who are more learned than I seem to think that this article is not appropriate I accept its removal. Perhaps keep the pages seperate or unlinked to the Hewitt or Federer main articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Messenger777 (talk • contribs) 00:53, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * OTHER PAGES: Those are historic and should not be delete, but if they are I will work on prose in the next six to eight weeks to get the upto par. By the way, which one do you not think is a rivalry page that I created with the exception of one of the Becker-Wilander one because most met 20 something times and in multiple majors! I think you all need to go look at the Boston Globe slide show that I found before deletion of these on WP:Tennis, which I have not seen many of you all work on tennis related articles at all. Leave the rivalry pages upto the ones that know the project best, and activly follow the sport http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/tennis/gallery/08_25_06_greats/ http://us.open-tennis.com/greatest-rivalries-in-tennis! Do your freaking research people before you delete articles, which wikipedia say even you have to do before nominating them for deletion under WP:FAILN! Tennis  Authority  21:06, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You may wish to take a look at WP:OWN. Resolute 21:18, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I fully know the rule, I have always said that I dont own these and come up with proof before accusing people of things, PLEASE! Tennis Authority  21:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Did I fight it out when my nicknames were deleted from the Federer page nope! I left it like the other person wanted! Did I keep on the debate long when my icons on pages were disputed for long, NOPE AGAIN! Did I dispute others when they changed the open championship courses navbox nope again three! I never claim to own, I only want to see good stuff added to wikipedia, and help fight ignorance in areas that I care about, which are Tennis, Golf, Politics, USA, and etc.! Tennis Authority  21:29, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Then perhaps you would consider introducing an assertion of notability into this article rather than complaining about how non-tennis people should leave the article to those that "know best". I am more than willing to change my position on the article, but not while it stands as nothing more than an indiscriminate collection of statistics. Resolute 21:32, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment. TennisAuthority said "Those are historic and should not be deleted".  I offer the following observations:
 * You requested that Borg–Vilas rivalry be speedily deleted.
 * You created Connors–Lendl rivalry on June 18th. Not exactly "historic" (being a recently created page), and entirely lacking of "rivalry" information.
 * At Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tennis you have listed a large number of other rivalry pages you created on June 18th.
 * As stated above, you need to define what "rivalry" means. Merely playing another player multiple times is not a rivalry. As such, I am going to tag all those June 18th-created rivalry pages for AfD.  SpikeJones (talk) 21:35, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * By The Way: It's kind of hard to find sources on the web on many of these rivalries, which makes it hard to add detail like prose, so I will have to invest in time to find some books, encyclopedia's like Bud Collins in order to make these notable! It will cost me money, but I want to fight stupidity one step at a time on here! Federer-Nadal, Agassi-Sampras, and the Williams' Sisters are not the only rivalries because they are current and have easily accessible articles on them! Tennis Authority  21:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment: You will be well served by answering the questions that are being raised, rather than accusing other editors of stupidity.SpikeJones (talk) 21:51, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Close the discussion Somebody other than the nominator added seven additional articles for consideration after the discussion started. In my opinion, that's disruptive.  If the nominator had wanted to discuss eight articles, the nominator would have nominated eight articles.  No wonder TennisAuthority is pissed off.  So am I.  Mandsford (talk) 21:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Nominate All: I am nominating all of tennis rivalry pages for deletion until an appropriate policy can be achieved to substantiate these and all future rivalry pages! Tennis Authority  21:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Last Note: Discussion going on here Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tennis on the validity of all rivalry pages! Tennis Authority  22:16, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

GO FORTH IN IGNORANCE! I HAVE LEFT WIKIPEDIA FOR GOOD! TENNISAUTHORITY —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.44.215 (talk) 23:19, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Even so, come back any time. You know, nobody enjoys seeing their article nominated for deletion, but it's happened to all of us.   Everything gets published on Wikipedia, but not everything gets to stay on Wikipedia.  It's still one of the best things that ever happened to the Internet.  Mandsford (talk) 00:13, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No big deal. One "authority less", a dozen or so remains (see User_talk:Bluedogtn). NVO (talk) 02:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete this article tells me nothing about any "rivalry", just a list of results. As tournament seedings are done to keep top ranking players apart it is only inevitable that the top players will end up meeting, and if they are good then they will meet more than once. This list of results, and any like it, give me no insight to any actual rivalry, not do they meet notability standards. Darrenhusted (talk) 15:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Connors–Lendl rivalry - Not sure about the others, but the Connors-Lendl rivalry was very notable, with multiple Grand Slam finals and semifinal matches and lots of discussion during the 1980s. Rlendog (talk) 23:30, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also:
 * Keep Evert-Navratilova rivalry
 * Keep Lendl-McEnroe rivalry
 * Keep Connors-McEnroe rivalry
 * For the same reasons noted above for Connors–Lendl rivalry. There are probably other tagged items that link to here that should be kept as being very notable, and much more notable than Federer–Hewitt rivalry, but it is difficult to discuss them appropriately as they are not even listed in this AfD. Rlendog (talk) 02:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. Indiscriminate collection of statistics.  There is certainly scope for articles of this kind, but they need to establish notability and cited evidence of "rivalry".  Tennis players play other tennis players all the time. It doesn't mean they share a rivalry and all we have to support existence of a 'rivalry' here is the opinion of the article creator.  -- Escape Orbit  (Talk) 16:54, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.