Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Felix Ho


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. slakr \ talk / 00:04, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Felix Ho

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Dog trainer who has competed successfully in some non-notable national and international dog training competitions. No significant coverage in independent reliable sources, therefore fails WP:GNG. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 13:41, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete - does not meet WP:GNG, I haven't been able to find any sources; refs are just links to competition results.  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  15:55, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete The Ho I find is this a scientist at Uppsala University. What I think is problematic is the talk page history. It looks like this article was only edited by a three or four accounts, made for this purpose. Can be the same person using several accounts. This could also be  written by the same guy it is about. H(w)o knows? Hafspajen (talk) 10:51, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Belgium-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:05, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:05, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:05, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

* Keep - References 12 - 20 show magazine and newspapers articles about Ho in Australia, the Netherlands, Hong Kong, and Malaysia in English, Dutch, and Chinese. References 21 - 23 show internet articles written about Ho in Chinese. The page about Ho has also existed for several years in Wikipedia. talk Darren — Darren Yang (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. — Castor Lang (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep - The national and international dog training competitions Ho has competed in are not "non-notable". FCI has its own Wikipedia page and is one of the most prestigious international organizations for purebred dogs. KMSH, that organizes the Belgian National Selection Trials is a well recognized association in Europe. Schutzhund, the sport Ho competes in, also appears in Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Castor Lang (talk • contribs) 21:21, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
 * FCI may be notable, but competitions it organises are not. Notability is WP:NOTINHERITED. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:16, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Demiurge is correct - FCI itself is indeed notable; however, thousands of events come under the FCI umbrella as it lists events for most Kennel Clubs worldwide in every major canine discipline. The vast majority of these events would not be considered notable. Also, simply competing in an event is not indicative of a competitors notability.  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  18:16, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

* Keep - Mr. Ho is well known in the dog training world. I have found more references online in several languages about the man:

- http://www.ovguide.com/felix-ho-9202a8c04000641f80000000045fc5cd

- http://www.deboterham.be/De_Boterham/Sport/Artikelen/2011/3/9_Hondentraining_met_Felix_Ho.html

- http://www.scmp.com/topics/ho

- http://www.scmp.com/article/723987/canine-trainers-dogged-devotion

- http://zoologists.informationmart.net/Felix_Ho/itemdetail

- http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_92bd3e320101h66t.html

- http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2886731137

- http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=DnnHca58ql4rzXsUlMZdAVK0TqffNlWZHJnO-iA_x7D19nOonIgigYJZpqGG5xPMtR880kR-crf86Oa9Od8zG_

- http://chinapet.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=22850820&bbsdata=old

JS — Jack solomon (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * The last of those links is to a forum, therefore not a reliable source. The two Baidu links are to a wiki - not a reliable source. I see little reason to think that "informationmart.net" is a reliable source either. The 2011 article in German might be. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:08, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * sina.com is a blog, so also not a reliable source. Looking at the "references" that have been added to the article (some of which are likely to be deleted for copyright infringements as they are photographs of magazines) but #2–11 are lists of results; #17 & 18 look like one article written by Ho as it bears an icon 'Felix's column'; and #21–23 are forums.  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  18:16, 1 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:05, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete mentions online as a participant in competitions related to Schutzhund but does not have the significant coverage we look for in our general notability guidelines. EricSerge (talk) 14:09, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

CS — Preceding unsigned comment added by Castor Lang (talk • contribs) 17:29, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep - Some of the references in this page and in the article are from newspapers and magazines. The sources are independent and neutral, making the article worthy to stay on Wikipedia.
 * (struck duplicate !vote) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:44, 25 February 2014 (UTC) See also Sockpuppet investigations/Castor Lang. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:08, 25 February 2014 (UTC) - I've now struck several sockpuppet !votes based on the results of the SPI. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:19, 1 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Stay - There are sufficient independent and reliable references in several languages to show the authenticity of the person and the prestige of the events he has competed in. The page has also existed for a long time without any problem. It fits the criteria of Wikipedia and should stay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Four Void (talk • contribs) 21:39, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

WP:Conflict of interest You should not create or edit articles about yourself, your family or friends. If you or they are notable enough, someone else will create the article. You should also avoid writing about yourself or people you know in articles on other topics. This includes people with whom you could reasonably be said to have an antagonistic relationship in real life. If you have a personal connection to a topic or person (such as being an employee, or having family ties or some other relationship), you are advised to refrain from editing articles directly, and to provide full disclosure of the connection. Hafspajen (talk) 23:34, 25 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Retain - There is no prove the editors of the page have direct contact with Ho and there is no prove that Ho himself has edited the page. There are however solid and trustworthy references proving Ho's history and achievement in his sport. The competitions he has participated in might seem non-notable to people out of the dog world, but can all be looked up online and are prestigious events. Freerooster — Preceding undated comment added 07:51, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Sagaciousphil and User:Hafspajen, who both !voted Delete above, both seem rather knowledgeable about dogs judging by their Wikipedia contributions, so no it's not a question of being "people out of the dog world". --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:12, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Demiurge - it looks as if the check user has now also been completed at the SPI.  SagaciousPhil   -  Chat  18:16, 1 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment Sock puppets and a badly written article haven't helped with this AfD. Nor did the copyvios, which are now deleted. I know quite a few people in the dog agility world in the UK, and I suspect at least one of them deserves their own article. We have no guidelines for dog trainers/handlers, so we go by WP:GNG ("significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject") and I'd argue WP:SPORTCRIT for dog agility. He's won no world champtionships. This article might count as one source towards GNG. Unfortunately the deleted stuff had no details we can check. I'm just not sure. Dougweller (talk) 17:07, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete; appears to fail the general notability guideline. bobrayner (talk) 00:13, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.