Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fernando Macolor Cruz


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. — Mr. Stradivarius  (have a chat) 08:35, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Fernando Macolor Cruz
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A PROD with these concerns was removed although they haven't been addressed: A WP:BLP making extreme claims with no independent refs. See also Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Fernando_Macolor_Cruz, where a similar article was declined. heather walls (talk) 19:24, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 23:09, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 23:09, 14 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete. Strong claims (such as in this case being royalty) need strong sources, and I can't find them in this case. I note that the supposed "Studiorum Universitas Ruggero II in Italy" that (our article says) gave him an honorary degree appears from some evidence on the web to actually be an association in Boca Raton, Florida, closely connected with another Boca Raton organization, the "Accademia Normanna in Rome" that he claims to be a "delegate" to. We had an article Studiorum Universitas Ruggero II but it was tagged as a hoax and deleted as a copyvio a week or so ago. The University of Bouake appears to be a real university (at least from 1996 when it split from the University of Abidjan, according to our article, until 2003 when it was closed, according to this news piece); I have no evidence of an honorary doctorate from there, either. I suspect some kind of walled garden may be going on. Our article on Rodolfo Aguilar I may also be relevant for untangling this; that article has somewhat reliable looking sources for Aguilar's title and says incidentally that he made up and conferred a title "Grandmaster of the Royal Order of the Calamian Sun" on his son; that title is claimed in Cruz's article, so perhaps there is some connection. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:41, 14 September 2012 (UTC


 * Retain.Dear David. The problem with finding only internet sources makes Wikipedia very limited in scope. First, it is true that the Norman Academy and the Ruggero II University were incorporated in the United States. But both got their license to operate from the Republic of the Gambia as per the Ministry of Justice registration there (with special assistance of the President of the Republic of Gambia!) himself. How can you call this a hoax! Now, How can I send you the documents when they are not online? Tell me and I will gladly comply to the satisfaction of your curiosity and doubt. In relation to the University of Bouake, you might be reading from an outdated source. Please refer to this link: http://www.cirad.bf/fr/ubouake.php and read the translated version of the updated status of the university. Regarding traditional ancient tribal titles in the Philippines, please know that this has a very complex story. But allow me to discuss it to you in a nutshell. Tribal titles of nobility in the Philippines were there since time immemorial. Antonio Pigafetta saw this. History can attest to this. In fact, there are more than two thousand royals and nobles in the country, as compared to the few "huge" names in British or Spanish monarchy. In the country, these ancient titles were re-recognized and affirmed again with the passing of the Indigenous Peoples Rights Acts or simply known as IPRA law. This law was passed by the Republic of the Philippines to make amends to the injustice done by Spain to the native royalties and the native societies of the Philippines. The title of the prince was granted under a provision in this law. The National Commission on Indigenous Peoples of the Republic of the Philippines issued Administrative Order No.1 – Series of 1998, Rule IV-Part I, Section A to C. Here is the link: http://www.chanrobles.com/republicacts/republicactno8371irr.html#.UFPZ57LiamI
 * Here you will read the law that became the basis of the prince title. Again, how can I send you a scanned copy of the certificate of grant and the tribal council of elders' proclamation affirming this title? It is easy to discredit but very hard to repair comments once they have already been done, especially online. So, please. Tell me how to contact you off Wiki so I send you legal documentation to this effect. Thank you.
 * It was not me that called it a hoax. And I'm very easy to find offline but doing so will do little good: what we need here is not something that will persuade one editor at a time that the claims in this article is true, but rather something with which all editors can verify its truth. That's why Wikipedia depends on reliable sources, something this article is missing and badly needs. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:57, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply I would hope that something so dramatic and national would have reliable secondary coverage. The other problem with a certificate of grant from you is that it is original research which we can't use to verify the main information in a biography. It may be that Fernando Macolor Cruz is not ready for an article in Wikipedia's standards. And if there are thousands of royals as you say, perhaps these titles alone are not enough to establish that kind of notability. heather walls (talk) 02:36, 15 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Reply Dear David and Heather, thank you for both for the enlightenment. If ever the question of notability will suffice as the main issue here, I think the one great deed that this person did and is still working on which is worthy of acclaim was his move to found an international NGO called the International Stateless Persons Organisation (ISPO). This NGO assists and provides representation to stateless persons throughout the world. Stateless persons are those not considered citizen by any country under the operation of its law. These are the people where no country protects nor care for. If the question of his being a tribal noble becomes a blockade in this direction, then I may gladly assist in re-editing the article to this effect. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.198.82.122 (talk) 04:26, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply I cannot find any reliable secondary coverage regarding the International Stateless Persons Organisation. heather walls (talk) 04:38, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Reply Dear Heather, here is one of the links to an initiative of International Stateless Persons Organisation with over a hundred signatures: http://www.change.org/petitions/us-secretary-janet-napolitano-discretionary-decision-in-favor-of-mikhail-sebastian-s-return-to-the-us Hope I was of help in this. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.198.77.110 (talk) 10:10, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply Unfortunately no, creating a petition does not establish notability. heather walls (talk) 04:00, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete Utterly fails WP:ANYBIO, WP:ACADEMIC, & WP:GNG.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 05:54, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The article should probably abdicate, as I can't find any reliable sources about this person at all. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:12, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Consider The latest link is from a CNN I-report about a stateless person's case.Bottom part has attachment documents two from the international Stateless Persons Organization, addressed to the DHS cc The White House signed by Fernando Macolor Cruz. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.198.77.242 (talk) 10:29, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Are CNN iReports even reliable? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 15:52, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Unless someone else picks up the story and details, I would say no, it's the same as a blog. Every page says "NOT VETTED BY CNN" heather walls (talk) 19:47, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.