Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Filbert Street (San Francisco)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. No prejudice against further discussion on renaming this article.  Arbitrarily0  ( talk ) 19:10, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Filbert Street (San Francisco)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Filbert Street is an ordinary east-west street in San Franicisco and does not meet WP:NGEO. It is not a main road, nor an arterial street, nor a shopping district, nor is the street itself particularly historic. It does contain a notable feature, the Filbert Steps, a San Francisco landmark that I believe does meet WP:NGEO. An earlier article on Filbert Steps was merged into this one as superfluous - unfortunately, this was backwards, as Filbert Street itself is a non-notable feature. I would Propose to Merge, but that creates a redirect for "Filbert Street" to "Filbert Steps", which has its own set of problems. I am proposing to manually merge the content on Filbert Steps into another article, either Filbert Steps itself, or better, the Telegraph Hill, San Francisco article, with a newly added section on the step streets of Telegraph Hill, including the Filbert, Greenwich, and Vallejo steps. Peter G Werner (talk) 06:09, 4 August 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Valley 2 city ‽ 06:04, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  12:36, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: Given the nom's intent, I suggest draftification until Telegraph Hill, San Francisco contains the relevant content, at which point it could be moved back into mainspace and redirected there (for attribution purposes). Ovinus (talk) 00:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete I added the steps info to the Telegraph Hill, San Francisco article. I agree that the street itself is not notable. Lamona (talk) 20:49, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This is what I lean towards. It also allows some discussion of the nearby Greenwich Street and Vallejo Street steps without creating separate articles. Peter G Werner (talk) 22:49, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep but possibly rename to Filbert Steps - I think https://www.kqed.org/news/11907457/how-the-filbert-steps-came-to-be-an-oasis-in-san-francisco and https://www.sfgate.com/health/article/filbert-steps-sf-grace-marchant-napier-lane-coit-16296781.php is non-trivial coverage of the streets or steps and thus maybe the article should be rewritten to focus on the steps. There is also https://www.sfgate.com/local/editorspicks/article/Where-is-San-Francisco-steepest-street-15374214.php which briefly and trivially mentions Filbert Street and https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/top-san-francisco-things-to-do-2022/ which does the same. Thus it probably meets the WP:GNG. I have lived in the Bay Area for 20 years and this street is iconic, but not as iconic as Lombard Street. If this topic is not notable it may be good to do a proper merge with Telegraph Hill, San Francisco. Aasim - Herrscher of Wikis ❄️ 22:08, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:44, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. CptViraj (talk) 12:46, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep, simply. IMHO the deletion nomination should not have been made.  The nominator basically wishes to move the substantial topic back to Filbert Steps, from which it came (or from which the most notable info came).  That should have been submitted as a wp:RM.  Offhand, that doesn't make sense to do, because "Filbert Street" is the geographically larger topic and it is fine to cover Filbert Steps as a relatively huge section within that.  Allowing for additions of more info about notable happenings, history, buildings, etc. at other places along Filbert Street which add to the notability of the street.  But the reverse doesn't work, it doesn't make sense to be covering the street and various places along it, within an article about the steps.  It is also logically possible to have two articles, as if Filbert Street is a historic district (and in fact it is, but not yet listed as such on the National Register of Historic Places) and Filbert Steps is an individual place (like a contributing building or object in an NRHP historic district, or like a place separately listed on the NRHP which happens to be within the district.  In NRHP writing, it would never be done, to relegate a big historic district's coverage into a section of an article about one place in the district.  Also, I think many long historic streets in San Francisco probably deserves explicit coverage eventually, either as an article or a section in a neighborhood or historic district article. --Doncram (talk) 22:28, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Doncram, I'm curious about what content you think this article could have besides the Filbert Steps. In addition, what would the sources be for that content? As it stands, the article does not have any references for the street itself and I am not able to find any. Lamona (talk) 05:28, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, one thing it could cover is registered historic places (which is what I edit most about in Wikipedia) along the street. At National Register of Historic Places listings in San Francisco, I don't see any places with Filbert address which are individually NRHP-listed.  But do any of the historic districts in that list span Filbert?  If so then there is detailed info available about Filbert buildings.  Also there may be coverage of Filbert buildings in any City of San Francisco local historic registry program.  Another thing I'd do is "take a walk" down the street in Google Streetview, and inspect for apparently notable monuments or other objects, buildings, etc. --Doncram (talk) 20:49, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
 * On this topic, yes, Filbert Street does have some historic buildings along the length of it, but that does not make the street notable in itself. (I know the street well, since I used to live on a perfectly ordinary block of Filbert in Cow Hollow for a few years when I was a child.) I'll even outline them here: In addition to the Filbert Steps, there's Washington Square (San Francisco), Saints Peter and Paul Church, San Francisco, the half-block of Filbert west of Leavenworth that's one of the steepest streets in SF, and the Old Vedanta Society Temple at Filbert and Webster. But again, attaching notability to Filbert Street for these features would be like saying Steiner Street is notable because it has the famous Alamo Square Victorians and the site of the old Winterland Ballroom along it. Peter G Werner (talk) 22:48, 30 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Okay, echoing those and adding a few more, please see numerous landmarks along Filbert Street all in a map by clicking on "Map of all coordinates using OpenStreetMap" to the right of this page. The several landmarks along the street, whose coordinates I have just identified and labelled, are:
 * East end of Filbert?, where Filbert or sidewalk continuing from it arrives at The Embarcadero 37.80246°N, -122.4007°W
 * Filbert Steps, between Sansome St. and Montgomery St.37.8021°N, -122.40378°W
 * "Filbert Stairs" (or "Filbert Stairs to Coit Tower" as labelled in Google maps), btwn Montgomery & Kearny, or perhaps more specifically between Telegraph Hill Blvd and the corner of Kearny & Filbert 37.80179°N, -122.40608°W
 * Filbert St. along Washington Square Park 37.80128°N, -122.41021°W
 * Washington Square Park 37.80081°N, -122.41011°W
 * Sts. Peter & Paul Church, facing onto Filbert 37.80157°N, -122.41022°W
 * New School of San Francisco, formerly __?__ 37.80098°N, -122.41513°W
 * Block btwn Leavenworth & Hyde (one of SF's very steepest blocks, a one-way down street)37.80027°N, -122.41843°W
 * "Watermelon Hill", identified as a 24 hour tourist attraction, presumably a viewpoint, where SF cable car line along Hyde St. crosses Filbert St.37.80015°N, -122.41926°W
 * Filbert & Van Ness Ave., location of buses/cablecars/subways?/what? serving Filbert 37.7995°N, -122.42421°W
 * Old Vedanta Society Temple, first Hindu Temple in America, at Filbert and Webster 37.7981°N, -122.43424°W
 * a point on Filbert within the Cow Hollow area 37.79805°N, -122.43573°W
 * Also add a point on Filbert within Russian Hill neighborhood
 * Also add a point on Filbert within North Beach neighborhood
 * Also add a point on Filbert within Telegraph Hill neighborhood
 * Cow Hollow Playground, inside adjacent block, i.e. behind buildings fronting onto Filbert 37.79734°N, -122.44486°W
 * West end of Filbert at Golden Gate Park 37.7966°N, -122.44713°W
 * And please compare this info to what's covered in Lombard Street article. That article has a table indentifying the street's end points and additional major intersections, which this could have too.  It mainly (only?) talks about the one block with the curvy roadway, besides mentioning the intersections. The Lombard Street article has no landmarks besides intersections along the street.
 * I am not the one to write interesting text about these spots, but there's more to say than can comfortably be merged into Telegraph Hill (and much simply does not apply there). And I think this is adding up to be better than the Lombard Street article. --Doncram (talk) 01:13, 31 August 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.