Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Films featuring a white protagonist in Africa (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was DELETE. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:01, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Films featuring a white protagonist in Africa
AfDs for this article: 
 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Deserves second consideration after no consensus result last time. Generally trivial list, should probably be merged into any of the popular culture articles on film or books. Bulldog123 22:36, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete as listcruft. Do we need to create Films featuring an Asian protagonist in Africa as well? eaolson 23:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete as listcruft per WP:NOT. Why people insist on creating all these lists?  Under what possible conceivable situation would someone actually search for this?  Why not create Films featuring an LGBT protagonist in Africa? --Nonstopdrivel 23:16, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, if you can find academic sources for that topic. WP:NOT says nothing about "listcruft". The list is evidently useful as credible people have studied the topic and written or filmed about it. Once the article is improved, it can be linked more heavily from related articles. –Pomte 03:38, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Weak delete Perhaps this information could be useful in another article; the theme appears to be "ethnic stereotypes", with a white person portrayed as explorer, missionary, etc.; it goes off on so many different tangents that I'm missing the point. Maybe a list of films set in sub-Saharan Africa would make more sense.  There is some merit in studying race as a factor in casting of films--such as the roles assigned to African-American, Asian or Hispanic actors, etc., in American movies.  This article will probably disappear, but I urge the author to save it and retool.  Mandsford 23:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete as far too trivial. Why not make Films featuring an American Indian, left-handed protagonist in Oklahoma? Ten Pound Hammer  • (((Broken clamshells • Otter chirps))) 00:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, if you can find academic sources for that topic. –Pomte 03:38, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You can find academic source(s) specifically addressing this topic? I haven't seen any. Bulldog123 07:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep - the topic is the subject of multiple reliable sources discussing the sub-genre. That articles on other ethnicities on other continents don't exist has no bearing on whether this article should exist. Otto4711 01:03, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not a sub-genre. It's more like a phenomena in film. But why should it be separate from the other phenomena? Most of which are in XX in popular culture articles. Bulldog123 01:46, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep for the exact same reason as last time. Over the next two days I'll work on making the article more coherent with citations to the already-linked sources as well as adding more sources. –Pomte 03:38, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not the quality, it is the content. Bulldog123 03:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * While the article currently looks like a list, it doesn't have to contain any lists at all, and can focus on aspects common to such films. –Pomte 07:10, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * keep Is relevant about the portrayal of Africa in film, They used to be called Great white hunter movies. Muntuwandi 04:15, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletions.   -- John Vandenberg 05:15, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete bwana. The criterion is way too broad. Given the proclivities of Hollywood, this would include pretty much every movie set in Africa. Clarityfiend 05:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No implication that this needs to include every example. –Pomte 07:10, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No but the title implies as much. -- S up? 14:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * So rename it. Otto4711 17:43, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd think that the keepers should be thinking about renaming. Not the other way around. Bulldog123 07:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The keepers have no problem with the article title as is, so why should they be sitting around thinking up new titles? Otto4711 13:02, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete This may be less random, more sourceable and hold more encyclopedic value than, say, List of porn stars who like pizza but it's still way too indiscriminate for my tastes. -- S up? 14:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete the list and instead write a prose article based on secondary sources that have significant coverage about the premise of the white man in Africa. The entries have been synthesized by the editors themselves, and there's no attributable source identifying that "white protagonist in Africa" is a primary premise.  (And "watch the film for yourself" is not an argument.)  We don't get to choose what we think fits the list. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 19:59, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, the general subject of these movies is discussed by critics, and the list's introduction makes it quite clear that this is not any white protagonist. A rename would be appropriate, but the name of an article is not a reason to delete an article. John Vandenberg 14:13, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no evidence that this is on the level of a film genre. Nor that it is any more than a common theme. Bulldog123 07:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: To explain further why I don't think that this list is appropriate, try to see this article from an objective eye. The title is, at face value, no more significant than any of the suggestions by those who recommended to delete.  Now, exploring the article's content, there is some dialogue about the underlying premise for a white protagonist in Africa.  However, it is original research to find a film, surmise that it matches the so-called criteria for the premise, and add it to the list.  Should Egyptian films count, such as The Mummy?  Obviously, an editor should not make his or her own argument for the film's inclusion, but use an independent, attributable source to support this premise.  One of the external links is USA Today, but it does not specifically mention white-protagonist-in-Africa films.  It mentions films that take place in Africa.  From my perspective, without attribution, I don't see what films like The Ghost and the Darkness, Tears of the Sun, and The Constant Gardener have to do with each other.  There are many films with underlying common themes, like Bulldog mentioned -- protagonists who are out of luck at the beginning, protagonists who are stuck in desolate urban conditions, et cetera.  It does not seem that putting together our own list based on our interpretations of the premise is supportive of the encyclopedic goal of Wikipedia. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 14:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.