Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Firmin René Desloge


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:57, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Firmin René Desloge

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Genealogical article about a nineteenth century businessman based only on unpublished archival original research (apart from short mentions in The Desloge family in America). At best this should be redirected to Desloge Family in America. It would probably be better to simply delete it, being an unlikely search term. Sionk (talk) 16:54, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Firmin Rene Desloge is among the Missouri French settlement founders. Reference the merits of Firmin Rene Desloge as declared by Jay Gitlin, Yale University professor and director for French American (jay.gitlin at yale.edu) stating that Firmin Rene Desloge was one of those whose "activities of the French are crucial to understanding the phenomenon of westward expansion on a Bourgeois Frontier, characterized as much by family connections, private enterprise and negotiation as by conquest" and Author and academic Carl Eckberg, professor emeritus at Illinois State University and an expert on the French in colonial America, (cjeckberg at verizon.net) coined the phrase “French Aristocrats at the American West” to describe Firmin Rene Desloge and other prominent French families in Missouri.

Refer also to the information provided by The Missouri History Museum as follows: 'Firmin Rene Desloge is a central character of Missouri history who, through writings situated in France and America, provides an authentic historical narrative built around one family’s 600 letters dating from 200 years, providing live-action reality present at France & the French Revolution and the American Frontier. Based upon one of the largest bodies of vibrant correspondence written from the turn of the 1800s, we are able to peer into the scene of teeming wildlife and Native American Indians in the young America expanding from this family’s French nobility on the young American frontier..."

Wikidesloge (talk) 21:33, 11 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 23:25, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 23:26, 10 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep, but ... ' there's a problem here. A large number of articles have been added about various members of the family, the family itself as a family, and the business enterprises of various members of the family. They all have their common origin, apparently, in the Missouri History Museum project..   The material in the articles has many duplications and overlaps, and it seems clear to me that not all the articles are justified. There's a more general problem, also. A museum or an individual researcher will sometimes pick one individual or family about whom documentation happens to survive as an example for social or historical changes.  The person is often not notable otherwise, but eventually a good deal of history and sometimes literature and films gets written about them.  If the works are wll known enough, we often do need an article, because people will see the name and there may be n single suitable redirect. One of the common circumstances of this at WP is pioneers, in Canada, the US,  Australia. or NZ. In some cases our rules force the coverage, because some of the relevant national biographies will include otherwise non-notable people as typical examples.

In this case it's a little easier, because he was an important figurein the development of the region. &#39;DGG (at NYPL) (talk) 19:16, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * In this case it's a lit


 * Seriously? I'm surprised, considering we only have one possible mention in the Jay Gitlin publication (cited above). How isn't this WP article entirely original research? Sionk (talk) 19:50, 16 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment The first source listed is a 3rd-party secondary source. Just because it was published over a century ago, does not mean it stops being a secondary source.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:27, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * If you search the digitized book you'll see Firmin Desloge is only listed twice, with no biographical info or claims of importance. Sionk (talk) 23:00, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep He was an important businessman in Missouri.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:30, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 03:35, 18 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Missouri-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:51, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:31, 27 September 2013 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.