Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/First-person adventure (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Disambiguate.‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. There is consensus that converting this to a DAB is appropriate. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:52, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

First-person adventure
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Not really a distinct genre. During a short interval in the early 2000s it appears that this phrase circulated a little bit, but overall, nowadays, such games are categorized as action-adventure games. The notion of this hybrid genre named in this way this also conflicts with how a game like Myst is not a "first-person adventure" (a game of this hybrid genre, i.e. a first-person action adventure), but at the same time it is a first-person adventure (a first person adventure game, and it is often described using those words). Sourcing is lacking. Fails WP:GNG as a term. —Alalch E. 08:53, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. —Alalch E. 08:53, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Redirect to walking simulator - from the sources I've seen, most uses of the term are to describe such games, not Metroid Prime-like titles. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:28, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 * what do you think about this dab proposal:

"First-person adventure refers to the following types of video games:
 * First-person adventure as an adventure game, played from a first-person perspective
 * First-person adventure as an adventure game of the walking simulator subgenre of such games, played from a first-person perspective
 * First-person adventure as an action-adventure game that combines first-person shooter elements with adventure game elements"
 * —Alalch E. 16:47, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I would not mind that either. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:34, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Commenting to say that the verbiage used in the proposal does seem to be veering on the side of WP:OR. How did you assess the DAB list entries? Would those pages make mention of the genres being "first-person" adventure games? As it stands, none of those three articles really highlight the first-person aspect, although there is a "Category:First-person adventure games" which could possibly come in handy. Utopes (talk / cont) 07:48, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Would those pages make mention of the genres being "first-person" adventure games? The DAB proposal doesn't call "First-person adventure" a genre, as it isn't a genre. Player perspective (first-person, third-person etc.) is not a defining characteristic of a genre when adventure games are concerned. Two of the three dabbed articles do say as much, mentioning the attribute "first-person" to say that there are such games in this player perspective, among others (emphasis mine in examples):"Graphic adventures are adventure games that use graphics to convey the environment to the player. Games under the graphic adventure banner may have a variety of input types, from text parsers to touch screen interfaces. Graphic adventure games will vary in how they present the avatar. Some games will utilize a first-person or third-person perspective where the camera follows the player's movements, whereas many adventure games use drawn or pre-rendered backgrounds, or a context-sensitive camera that is positioned to show off each location to the best effect.""They are distinct from graphic adventures, which sometimes have free-moving central characters, but also a wider variety of commands and fewer or no action game elements and are distinct too from text adventures, characterized by many different commands introduced by the user via a complex text parser and no free-moving character. While they share general gameplay dynamics, action-adventures vary widely in the design of their viewpoints, including bird's eye, side-scrolling, first-person, third-person, over-the-shoulder, or even a 3/4 isometric view.""/no mention of 'first-person', but it should be added/"
 * Cheers—Alalch E. 10:14, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello! Firstly, I didn't intend that "first-person" was included in the genre. To my understanding, the genre is "adventure games", and "first-person" is the modifier.
 * When I bring up the current WP:OR, it says in the proposal that: First-person adventure refers to the following types of video games. I'm mainly just asking the question of: is there any evidence to suggest that "first-person adventure" is what ANY of these types of games are referred to as, and whether this referral has any basis beyond "it's an adventure game that is in first-person, therefore it's a first-person adventure [game]". None of the articles refer to any variations being described as a "first person adventure", nor is there any coverage about the significance of an adventure game BEING in first-person besides passing mentions that they can be [in first-person], which is akin to most other game genres.
 * In the first source you linked for the walking simulator portion, "first-person" was only brought up once as a passing mention. In the second source, it is talked about a lot more extensively, but it calls this topic a "first-person walker", which is at least specific for walking simulator games and could possibly exist as a redirect. Still though, my concern is that none of these adventure game articles really cover the "first-person" nature apart from passing mentions tucked among a collection of camera angles and perspectives. Would there be a difference between this and third-person adventure, or side-scrolling adventure, or 3D adventure? (3D adventure happens to already have a dedicated subsection at the adventure game page). In any event, my point is that I don't think a DAB page with this title is going to be very useful for finding relevant content, because it's not a topic that is really discussed in detail on any of these pages, nor is there much to suggest that "first-person adventure" is a significant description of anything beyond an adventure game with a first-person perspective. Utopes (talk / cont) 20:30, 3 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment, this article was recently restored after the conclusion of this RfD which closed yesterday (September 1st) at the time of writing. Utopes (talk / cont) 06:09, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * You have participated in the RfD which restored this article over the redirect, and the article is now nominated for deletion (which was also suggested in the RfD, but note that all participants have been pinged), so you may want to weigh in on deleting or keeping the article; other options include finding a better target in this AfD and converting the page into a DAB.—Alalch E. 15:05, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * You should also be aware that restoration introduced multiple entirely inappropriate links to articles about adventure games played from the first-person perspective such that the reader is informed that, say a game like Amerzone is a first-person shooter–adventure hybrid when it has nothing whatsover to do with shooters (see also this diff; and another example; and another). So the RfD made a mess. —Alalch E. 15:44, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Nominator comment. If no one has any objections I will withdraw this nomination in cca 24h and will boldly perform the edit that changes the page to a disambiguation page according to the above proposal (and if someone should subsequently oppose that, it will be handled outside of AfD).—Alalch E. 18:43, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * DAB sounds good to me. Skarmory   (talk •   contribs)  22:37, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I have returned the article to its roots. After doing some research I was able to definitively conclude that this was originally a fan-POV article about one tiny aspect of Metroid Prime. See the original revision from 2004. It was due to sheer confusion and name ambiguity that editors began editing it as if it was about anything else, which is when it mutated to be about nothing really. Seeing that it was truly terrible, it was redirected and this redirect was semantically repurposed to target an entirely different topic (a mention of the first-person perspective in our coverage of classic adventure games), but the RfD nominator, participants, and closer, not understanding that the redirect was somewhat justifiably repurposed in this sense, seeing its more recent history whereby the blanked content was about a supposed genre, and seeing how this supposed topic did not match the topic at the target, restored this terrible content over the redirect, reinstating the article. Erroneously, as what resulted was a bunch of wrong links, which I cleaned up. Now that it's clear what this article's subject actually is, a non-notable phrase, I as nominator stick to my initial deletion nomination, but, a redirect to Metroid (contains the following mention: Nintendo stressed that it was not a first-person shooter but a "first-person adventure".) could be a valid ATD. I no longer intend to pursue proposed DABbing, but I am not against it either. —Alalch E. 14:40, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * What it originally was has less than zero bearing on what should be done with it now. Many pages on Wikipedia were originally something else. It's preferable to move the original and start fresh if the page was a legitimate subtopic of something, but this was not. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:40, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Support dabbing. igordebraga ≠ 16:08, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate: I'm actually surprised that walking simulator discusses this category of games, and the content doesn't appear here. It strikes me as an error as this is the name for the genre that doesn't carry negative connotations, as per WP:NPOV and WP:ARTICLETITLES. But instead of fighting for several moves/renames, disambiguation is a good first step. I'd expect this to give me the information seen at walking simulator, and there may be some people who expect it to refer to more action-adventure games that are played from first person. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:20, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate or redirect in the alternative. There is at least one secondary source, but it's not significant coverage. There is potential for ongoing use, so I would not delete outright. Bearian (talk) 15:20, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate Is the obvious choice here. No meaning itself but several implied meanings. TarkusAB talk / contrib 17:02, 9 September 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.