Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/First Lady of Romania


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. The article's subject is found to be notable. &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 00:48, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

First Lady of Romania

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There is no such thing as the "First Lady of Romania". The media sometimes use this term, but such a position is not formalized in any way in the Romanian political system. The Romanian President's wife has no public attributions and the claim that the "First Lady" is styled "Her Excellency" is original research by Wikipedia standards. While Băsescu's wife enjoyed some media attention, I doubt that most Romanians even know what Nadia Constantinescu or Nina Iliescu look like. Mihai (talk) 20:28, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 23:06, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. N ORTH A MERICA 1000 23:07, 19 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep, per First Lady's first sentence of its lead, in which it is made clear that the term is invariably unofficial. There's nothing wrong with the subject per se (assuming RS exist), and problems should be solved through further editing. Pax 02:41, 20 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - you mean Nadia Ileana Bogorin and Nina Iliescu, both of whom have articles here? The title of "First Lady" isn't generally an official one (as above) but provided RS use the term, we're okay.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 08:05, 23 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Reply. Regarding the formality argument: I've compared the White House and the presidency.ro websites. It's dozens (maybe hundreds) to zero positive search results for "first lady"/"prima doamnă".
 * As I've mentioned above, the media sometimes use the term; usually just in order to refer to the wives of the two more recent Romanian presidents, when writing specifically about them, but never to talk about the position itself. There isn't a single article which significantly covers the AFD subject. So the General notability guideline isn't fulfilled.What's more, Wikipedia has a responsibility to base its terminology on solid sources; press articles aren't the most trustworthy ones.
 * As you've shown above, there are individual articles about some of the spouses of Romanian presidents. So in light of my previous arguments, what should this article contain if kept? You can bet that I'll delete that unreferenced style and residence information in the infobox. Should it be a list of spouses then? In this case, it could be placed under a more appropriate title, like List of spouses or partners of the President of France.--Mihai (talk) 22:34, 23 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment - before weighing in on the merits of this list, let's just note how this situation came to be. Late last year, after Klaus Iohannis was elected President of Romania, an editor took it upon himself to start an article on Carmen Iohannis. Objectively speaking, until her husband was elected, she was a nonentity: a high school English teacher. I still think she's basically a nonentity, and that all relevant content that can be mentioned about her from reliable sources easily fits into a couple of lines at Klaus_Iohannis. Then, another user created not just this list, but articles on three other nonentities: Maria Băsescu, Nina Iliescu and Nadia Ileana Bogorin. Once again, all that can be said about these women fits easily into a few phrases, and there really is no standalone notability for any of them. (Obviously, the one other presidential spouse, Elena Ceaușescu, is notable in her own right.)
 * So we have a bit of a mess on our hands. What I would propose doing is merging those four articles into the ones on the subjects' husbands. As for this list, we could delete &mdash; aside from a short burst around the time of Iohannis' election, there really aren't sources discussing the concept. Or we could move to List of spouses of the President of Romania, and create an actual list, albeit one that doesn't link to articles on the ladies, Elena Ceaușescu excepted. - Biruitorul Talk 04:52, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * It's not really such a mess - if articles for the individuals were created when they shouldn't have been, the answer is to delete those articles, not this list. I wouldn't strongly object to move to List of spouses of the President of Romania (given the standard set elsewhere) but that's a matter for a different discussion. Does Romania have a President? Yes. Have some of those Presidents had spouses? Yes. Is "First Lady" the universally accepted term for such a Presidential spouse? Yes. What information the list contains and whether or not the list is linked to articles for notable or non-notable individuals has no impact on the decision to delete the list itself or not. Thus far, no cogent rationale for deletion has been provided.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 05:07, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep per Stalwart. It's referenced, and although it could be expanded and might eventually serve as a merge target for articles about the individuals on the list, there is nothing inherently wrong with this article. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 17:14, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.