Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/First MiG behind the Iron Curtain


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

Note: If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links in order to create a new discussion page using the name format of Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination). When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->

The result was Keep and rename. Krakatoa Katie  12:15, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

First MiG behind the Iron Curtain
This baffling article starts with a rather unencyclopedic title and premise, and from there just spirals off into a series of increasingly irrelevant tangents. No sources whatsoever for any of it. wikipediatrix 18:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Duhhh...lete? In its current form, it's incomprehensible. If anything, the core of the article is how it looked back on August 24 . At worst, restore the article to that version and rename it (Polish defectors? Franciszek Jarecki?). However, as much as the alternative would be to merge it (into what? I couldn't find an appropriate article) the best solution may be to delete it. Agent 86 18:58, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete for...er...Soapbox? OR?  It's actually kind of hard to decide why this should be deleted, because the article doesn't have anything to do with the title.  It's a discription of defections from various countries that involved a similar type of airplane, which is just a bit odd (and even deciding that's what it's "about" takes a bit of work).  Also if one checks the talk page, there's potentially a copyvio issue as well. -Markeer 20:57, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Rename to List of Cold War fighter pilot defections or something similar, unless it's a copyvio of course. The article's subject is pretty clearly instances of defection which led to the West gaining knowledge of Soviet aircraft technology, and if sourced would be worth keeping. It just has a really bad name. --tjstrf 21:28, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename per Tjstrf.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:45, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. I have no idea what this article is trying to say.  I did, at least, get a laugh out of reading it until I realized that it didn't say Soviet defecations, North korean defecations, etc.  --דניאל - Danie lroc ks123 contribs 22:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment If it helps anything, Franciszek Jarecki made 2 brief mentions in the May 11, 1953 and June 8, 1953 TIME magazines, according to the second of which his naturalization was the subject of a US House of Representatives vote. From what I can decipher of the Polish web hits I'm getting, he was the subject of a film as well. Even if the article itself is deleted, Jerecki probably deserves to have a bio stub. --tjstrf 22:24, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename per Tjstrf. This seems like a reasonable list article, just with an odd name (as if it were a magazine article). I'll tag for the milhist guys. --Dhartung | Talk 08:54, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename per Tjstrf, except use List of Cold War pilot defections as not only fighter planes were involved. Definitely an interesting subject, as some of those defections were significant international incidents. Franciszek Jarecki deserves an article as well. Balcer 17:42, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename per Balcer. --Mareklug talk 19:40, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename or Keep and write a proper, sourced lead.  // Halibutt 23:31, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. Individual names and dates are practically useless without giving any context. The defections, protection against them and their impact would have been very useful. Pavel Vozenilek 23:49, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. As it is, this is just an indiscriminate collection of information. Are all defections notable? I don't think so. Do we need a list of them? Doubt it. Do we need a list of specifically only defections by pilots? Definitely not. wikipediatrix 23:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep, Rename, Refactor. --Lysytalk 04:56, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep, Rename `'mikkanarxi 08:13, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep, Rename, and Cleanup. Some of these are definitely notable.  Most are old enough that print media will need to be referenced.  At least one of these incidents was the primary subject of a full book.  GRBerry 15:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Question Is that book where the title of the article came from? Because that would explain the otherwise incomprehensible name choice. --tjstrf 16:04, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope, the book I had in mind (although I doubt I still have it in my library) was about the Russian that went to Japan, but the article started about the Polish ones. The original creation in 2004 was by a user that has been inactive since October 2005, whois clearly Polish, so it might be a mistranslation of some Polish source's title.  GRBerry 21:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.