Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fitzgerald Auto Malls


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Opinion is slightly in favour of keeping, and moreso among the later contributions after some of the article issues had been dealt with. Michig (talk) 07:37, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Fitzgerald Auto Malls

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Can a car dealership be notable by fact of being a car dealership? I mean omitting possible qualities as being the largest dealership (employees, volume of sales), a newsworthy innovation, or notoriety (e.g., a dealership whose owner was notorious for hiring teenage boys who responsibilities included unsavory activities). I honestly don't know. I came across this article, originally written 19 September, while working thru the New Pages backlog. By inclination, I'm an inclusionist (although I'm not interested in marking reviewed articles on sports people or record albums; if you don't like it, help drain the backlog yourself), but I'm interested in keeping obvious vanity entries & advertising. And here I honestly don't know the answer. In this case, let me lay out the reasons to keep & the reasons to delete:


 * To keep --
 * A passing reference that the owner played a role in the 2008-2010 Automotive industry crisis,
 * Based on number of employees, it appears to be a sizable company,

As an additional point, even if I reviewed this article, I know this article will eventually find its way to AfD. So we might as decide this issue now. -- llywrch (talk) 21:56, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
 * To delete --
 * WP:NOTADVERTISING (This article reads very much like an advertisement, & if kept would need to be rewritten.)
 * Article was created with the edit summary, "Putting up a legitimate Wikipedia article for Fitzgerald Auto Malls, an auto dealership in with its headquarters located in Maryland" -- not a promising sign.
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions.  Jinkinson   talk to me  23:02, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Maryland-related deletion discussions.  Jinkinson   talk to me  23:02, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:54, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

To Keep I am the user who put the article up in the first place and here's why I believe the article should NOT be deleted. Fitzgerald Auto Malls employs well over 1,000 persons and is one of the largest employers in Montgomery County, Maryland as well as the state of Maryland. Fitzgerald Auto Malls comprises over 20 locations in Maryland, Pennsylvania and Florida and therefore has some national recognition. Also, as you mentioned in your reasons "to keep" this article, Fitzgerald Auto Malls played an integral role in passing legislation that saved numerous dealerships and thousands of jobs across the U.S. following the auto industry crisis of 2008-2010. Fitzgerald Auto Malls plays a key role in supporting child car safety in Maryland through its monthly Car Seat inspection events, in which trained technicians install car seats for families in need of assistance. I understand that this article may read to some like an advertisement and I would be happy to partake in the rewriting process to make it more neutral. However, the fact that I put up a lackluster edit summary is listed as a reason "to delete" is completely unfair and does not take into account the validity or importance of the article. If I had to resubmit the article my edit summary would read as follows: "I am adding a legitimate article for Fitzgerald Auto Malls: one of the largest employers in Maryland, a leader in child safety and recycling, and a key player in the U.S. Auto Crisis of 2008-2010." Please take my reasoning into consideration before deleting this article. I would be happy to discuss this further and accept anyone's input as to how to improve this page so it may avoid deletion. Best, HIST406-13jlsilver (talk) 13:29, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

It is also worth mentioning that Fitzgerald Auto Malls is the only car dealer group in North America to achieve ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 certifications. HIST406-13jlsilver (talk) 13:38, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

I recently made several significant edits to the Fitzgerald Auto Malls article and added a few new sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HIST406-13jlsilver (talk • contribs) 14:50, 20 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Weak delete. As I look at the guidelines on company notability, I think this is a near miss. There's just not significant, in-depth coverage of the company in non-local sources. It seems as if the man is more notable than the company (and notability isn't inherited). Indeed, it's possible the man could have an article, but I did insufficient checking to say for sure; others might wish to comment on that.
 * To me, the size of the company doesn't matter; I subscribe to essay WP:BIG.
 * The creator has done a good job ferreting out references, but they're a little weak. The best one are about the man, not the company (e.g. ).
 * Others are local (they're easy to spot). I couldn't find any references that were at least regional, and also had in depth coverage of the company (not just a couple of sentences, or about a single event). Subsection WP:AUD seems worth quoting: "On the other hand, attention solely from local media, or media of limited interest and circulation, is not an indication of notability; at least one regional, national, or international source is necessary."
 * There was some non-local coverage, such as Outraged: How Detroit and the Wall Street Car Czars Killed the American Dream . Fitzgerald Mall was named several times. However, the coverage wasn't extensive; it was mentioned in context of a single event, and lacked depth.
 * For what it's worth, I looked at the essay on outcomes; this has no formal weight, but is sometimes helpful. Some of the items were interesting (e.g., reference to WP:BIG), but nothing was exactly on point.
 * As a side note, the nominator was correct to say that the article was highly promotional. It's since been toned down. I still see significant issues, but not enough to blow up the article. --Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 16:14, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Hopefully now a Weak Keep Larry/Traveling_Man [I have removed the bolding, and struck through this, as it makes it appear that I have changed my vote.--Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 18:34, 20 October 2014 (UTC)] I would like to start by thanking you for taking such a vested interest in this Wiki page. I now understand more of the process required to keep a Wiki page up and running as well as the process for deletion. Just now, I added a national source from Reuters to the article, which I had not been able to locate previously. This reference should qualify as being one of the "best" references that you listed above in addition to preventing the article from violating Subsection WP:AUD since this is a nationally published source. I appreciate you noting that the article has since been toned down with regards to advertising and that it's issues are not enough to blow up the article. I am still in the process of toning down the article's apparent advertising and will continue to work to improve this article and stave off deletion. Any suggestions as to how I could do this would be truly appreciated. Thanks again, best HIST406-13jlsilver (talk) 16:50, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * [I edited your text, above, as it put a bolded !vote next to my user name, possibly giving the impression that I had changed my !vote. Each person should really !vote just once -- so just one bolded item.] Unfortunately, the reference to Reuters might sound promising, but it's just a press release. Indeed, the reference includes the text "Reuters is not responsible for the content in this press release." If you could find an article that Reuters wrote, where it talks about the company in depth, that would be different. Hopefully more people will comment on this deletion request; it's quite possible they'll disagree with me. --Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 18:34, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for responding, I did not realize that this source was a press release. I am still working on finding more reliable, nationally published sources and will continue to update the Fitzgerald Auto Malls page as I am able to locate them. I agree that one vote per person makes sense and I apologize for making it appear as though you had changed your vote. I do hope that more people weigh in on this page so that I may continue to improve it and avoid deletion. -- HIST406-13jlsilver (talk) 18:55, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I was just able to replace the Reuters press release with two other sources I found. Still in the process of improving the page and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again, HIST406-13jlsilver (talk) 13:41, 21 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 21:55, 24 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment. I lean to keep. A few new references for you;, , , . Also here is a digital copy of the book already referenced in the article; , an award they won . JTdale   Talk 05:02, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
 * User:JTdale - Thanks so much for providing these references, I really appreciate it. A few of them have already been added to the article, but I added one you provided to bolster the Wiki page's intro section. Great that you fond a copy of the book, I had been looking for that! Thanks again! Any more help you can provide would be awesome. Best, HIST406-13jlsilver (talk) 17:01, 27 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 01:34, 1 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete - as advertising--Star Log, Lfrankblam, Kirk Out (talk) 07:42, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep - in terms of advertising, the article has been toned down significantly since its creation. Also Fitzgerald Auto Malls is one of the most notable private auto dealer groups in North America and it is the only such group in North America to be awarded ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 certifications. HIST406-13jlsilver (talk) 14:50, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep - improved enough to keep. VMS Mosaic (talk) 06:06, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.