Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flag of Elbląg


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to merge, so default to keep. Different quality arguments for merging, some good and some not so good, but I find Rupples' last paragraph to be the most persuasive. Desire to merge can be done via editorial processes over coming months if no development of the article occurs. Daniel (talk) 12:04, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Flag of Elbląg

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Been tagged for a few weeks without improvement. There's a single in-depth source currently (#2 at the time of nomination), but searches did not turn up any other in-depth coverage. Could be redirected to the city, but that was contested.  Onel 5969  TT me 13:05, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 13:41, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * KEEP. This is flag of city, which means that it's not gonna have huge internet presence, as people usually don't write news articles about flags. It doesn't mean its not notable. Flags usually don't have huge coverage online, and when they do, its mostly in vexicollogy related blogs, which aren't good source to begin with. This is the case with most city flags, as you will notice, when you look around, most flag articles on Wikipedia don't have much online coverage and are usually stubs. But they are recognizable symbols, and are given they onw articles here. And this particular flag is well established historical symbol, used since 14th century. Artemis Andromeda (talk) 19:40, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 16:54, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge summary to Elbląg. As written, WP:GNG is not met. This can be covered in a section in the city about its symbols, but for stand-alone article we need more an official document and an article on a local portal. Coverage in other sources doesn't appear to meet WP:SIGCOV. This is not a hoax, but it's not notable, either. PS. Another place information can be preserved might be Wikimedia Commons, in the description of an image. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 14:22, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:58, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge into Elbląg. As Piotrus said, this currently does not meet GNG. If sources can be found proving notability, I would be happy to change to keep. echidnaLives  -  talk  -  edits  05:52, 7 December 2022 (UTC).
 * Keep. The article is too long to add to the article about the city. There is already a standard for writing separate articles about city flags. The half-smaller town of Pocatello has a separate article about the flag and yet it is a new project, while Elblag has traditions dating back to the Middle Ages. Similarly, the 100-year-old (old for the United States) Flag of Santa Barbara, California. Swiãtopôłk 13:24, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Swiãtopôłk Your argument is WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Suprised we don't have WP:ITSTOOLONGTOMERGE, that's a nice fallacy to add there too. Merging non-encyclopedic information should not be done, neither keeping it is good. Deletion is a solution, although WP:ATD tells us redirecting with a merge of "some" essential content will likely be the best outcome. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 06:57, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak keep or merge. This doesn't look that bad, sources say it's mention in an encyclopedia of flags? Second option (I think 🤔) would be to merge (per Piotrus) -
 * GizzyCatBella 🍁  04:51, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Final relist to determine whether to Keep or Merge. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:30, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak keep - I have seen articles that have been tagged for years for improvement that have not been brought up to AFD. It looks like this article is at stub level and there are already some references. With support from Polish editors, there is a possibility that more expansion can be achieved. However, I think if expansion proves to be not feasible, an eventual merge may be the best route. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 02:10, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment - leaning towards merge into Elbląg, but where to exactly? Perhaps a new section called "flag and coat of arms"? Detailed facts about the flag's design/aspect ratio could be placed in the description of the graphic in Wiki Commons (there is currently only a most basic description). I see potential for further development of the article/section so long as reliable sources can be found, such as a timeline of historical Elbląg flags, description of how widely used the flag is e.g. what buildings is it flown from, inclusion of a photograph. Rupples (talk) 00:21, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Merge to Elbląg. There's not so much material that the city article cannot absorb it, and I see no claim for independent notability. Mangoe (talk) 05:39, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. I've been mulling over whether a merge or keep is best and it's a close call. A potted history of the flag is here and although it could be deemed a blog, contributors have put forward sources for the material added, one of which is this:, a work on flags published in 1848. Inclusion in this work suggests some historical significance attaches to the flag. OK, a picture doesn't amount to in-depth analysis, but to me this, together with the existing sources is sufficient to push the article over the line regarding WP:GNG. The city was formerly in Prussia and so searches need to include its former German name of Elbing.


 * I think the article could be developed along the lines suggested in my previous comment but that is less likely to happen if merged into Elbląg. The flag's dimensional detail doesn't sit well in the Elbląg article (too detailed) but is fine in a separate page for the flag. Rupples (talk) 18:03, 23 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.