Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flag of the Federal State of Novorossiya


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. (Non-administrator closure) NorthAmerica1000 08:34, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Flag of the Federal State of Novorossiya

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Unofficial flag of unrecognized state, even without a history like flag of DPR has. Sources don't show notability (WP:NOTNEWS). Ignatus (talk) 17:37, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:20, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:20, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the  list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:20, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:21, 23 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep As the article's creator the sources talk about and describe the flag outside of the 2014 insurgency in Donetsk and Luhansk context. Additional sources:, , . - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 12:05, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep Subject is the flag of a major secessionist movement that has gained enormous global attention. IMO there is enough RS coverage to pass GNG. -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. The required significant coverage in reliable independent sources appears to exist to establish notability, I don't read Russian but I suspect further references are available in that language. Philg88 ♦talk 14:50, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. Passes WP:GNG.--Ddcm8991 (talk) 03:53, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete (and merge content into Federal State of Novorossiya) - This is yet another undue Ukraine crisis related article. The subject matter of this article can be easily covered at the main article ("Federal State of Novorossiya") without it necessarily needing a separate article of its own. I am astonished at how contributors can honestly say that this article does meet WP:GNG.
 * 1. "Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail. - The design of the flag has not received significant coverage. The Moscow Times, a youtube link on KyivPost and an article in a Ukrainian magazine  hardly amount to "significant coverage".
 * 2. "Reliable" means sources need editorial integrity to allow verifiable evaluation of notability, per the reliable source guideline. - The sources in the article seem mainly reliant upon a social media encounter and a press conference, there is only limited analysis and somewhat reliable commentary being made in one of the sources. The rest are of limited "editorial integrity" as they provide unreferenced claims. The flag at the Donetsk People's Republic website is in fact different to the flag upon which the article is based, hardly reliable or verifiable for these purposes.
 * 3. "Sources" should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability. - The Donetsk People's Republic website is hardly a "secondary and/or objective source" for these purposes.
 * 4. "Presumed" means that significant coverage in reliable sources creates an assumption, not a guarantee, that a subject should be included. - It would appear that the user has "presumed" that this topic is worthy of a separate article, maybe the best thing would have been is to have gone to the relevant talk page first (Talk:Federal State of Novorossiya). I'm sure the users who actively engage and contribute on this topic area would have simply incorporated this information into that article and not recommend a separate one.
 * 5. WP:RECENT - Undue attention has been given to the flag simply because of its recency. Whilst by no means binding, using the WP:10YT "10 year test" it would appear that this article unequivocally fails. Lunch for Two (talk) 05:44, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I think you are confused, this is not talking about the flag of the Donetsk People's Republic. Your first point about "Significant coverage" is just your point of view I have provided additional sources above, per WP:NOENG, the reliable sources do not have to be in english. Your second and third points, again this is not the Donetsk People's Republic. Your fourth point goes along with Significant coverage which I feel the flag has recieved on it's own. Your fifth point points to an essay, not policy or a guideline as you are assuming that this flag is not notable on it's own which it is through the sources given. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:31, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Another source found from the Kiev post that mentions the flag in it's timeline. . - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:45, 26 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete (and merge content into Federal State of Novorossiya) - main article contains no coverage of the flag, and is short enough to require it. &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 16:12, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep – If the "amount of content" is not high enough, then why not take note of the fact that the article was created less than two weeks ago? It would be best to at least wait for awhile before nominating such a new article for deletion. Dustin  ( talk ) 00:33, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge Delete (and merge into Federal State of Novorossiya) - I agree that this shouldn't be a standalone article. United States Man (talk) 21:32, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Any reason why? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:33, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with Lunch for Two (maybe not all of it) and The Almightey Drill. I simply didn't see the need to say the same thing again. (I guess I should from now on.) It is short and should be merged, in my opinion. United States Man (talk) 01:17, 29 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete (and merge content into Federal State of Novorossiya) - Article does meet Significant coverage criteria. The subject matter of this article can be easily covered at the main article ("Federal State of Novorossiya") without it necessarily needing a separate article of its own. (Just copy and past; its not hard to do.... I just did it a few minutes ago with my above reasoning....Face-grin.svg) —  Yulia Romero  •  Talk to me!  20:56, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * With 8 different reliable sources found for the flag (Including ones brought up here) it appears to pass WP:GNG. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:19, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * All sources you provided are not mainstream English world media (such as BBC News NBC News, etc.) but "specialised media that happens to be in the English language". The flag just did not get mainstream English world media (or you and I missed that) (unlike the pilot Nadiya Savchenko); hence in my view the flag does not meet WP:GNG. But I did not ask for the deletion of the information in the article (since I find it very interesting) but it is so little information that I do not see the point of it having its own article. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  20:06, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * There is nothing in WP:GNG that goes into mainstream English sources though. What do mainstream English sources even mean and from whose point of view? As stated in the guideline sources do not have to be in English as well. (WP:NOENG). - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 01:25, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * "mainstream English sources" I consider things that the average English speaker has daily contact with. People with no link to Eastern Europe will not daily look on the websites of The Moscow Times or KyivPost. I just do not see the point in having a lot of tiny articles with just a few interesting things on it. The rules are principles, but I see no point in blindly following them if in my opinion they make Wikipedia not a better encyclopaedia. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  13:11, 11 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Philg88 ♦talk 04:32, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete for a lack of notability.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 19:02, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * And how are you judging it to be non-notable? Dustin  ( talk ) 21:07, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Rather than parroting the people above you can you go on and explain how 8 reliable sources covering this does not pass WP:GNG? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:43, 9 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. This article helped me identify and explicate a symbol seen in a video news-clip - following a standard link from a page on a territorial entity. I call that encyclopedic. - Jandalhandler (talk) 21:45, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Expanding on the above: looking around Wikipedia, we find many political entities have infoboxes with images of their respective flags and links to separate articles on those flags. This applies variously to:
 * Unrecognised states like the Principality of Sealand
 * Long-standing states like San Marino
 * Recent states like South Sudan
 * Short-lived states like Biafra
 * Very short-lived states like the Republic of Carpatho-Ukraine
 * Established states like France
 * Federal entities like the European Union
 * City-states like the Republic of Venice
 * Cites like Kiïv
 * Intermittent states like the Catalan Republic
 * Do we have a de-facto standard here?
 * - Jandalhandler (talk) 02:02, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * When it comes to articles though each is handled different as the number and quality of sources differ from article to article. (WP:OTHERSTUFF). - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:11, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge to Federal State of Novorossiya. Crufty article on an aspect of a minor unrecognised state.  There's no reason a brief description of the flag can't be included in the main article.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 07:17, 13 July 2014 (UTC).
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.