Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flickerball


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. j⚛e deckertalk 16:39, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Flickerball

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Lacks notability and citations.

Interlaker (talk) 05:38, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2014 September 14.  — cyberbot I  Notify Online 06:06, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. &mdash;  Ascii002 Talk Contribs GuestBook 14:15, 14 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete without any sources, it looks like a "made-up game" which would fail WP:OR. Also fails WP:GNG .--Paul McDonald (talk) 09:51, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Paul, a quick Google search shows that "flickerball" exists and is quite popular as a college intramural sport. That having been said, I'm still not sure what to do with this article because the overwhelming majority of sources I've seen so far are college intramural program webpages.  This one is going to require some real analysis of the sources to determine whether it satisfies the general notability guidelines.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 12:34, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Freaking WOW! Oh, and changed to keep I got zero hits in the news search, but it's loaded with non-traditional sources--West Point, Northern Arizona University, Salem (IL) High School, Sidney (MT) high schools, Eastern Illinois University, and Davidson College just to name a few.  There are so many non-traditional sources across such a large geographic area that I can't help but be compelled to switch to Keep. --Paul McDonald (talk) 13:18, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  D u s t i *Let's talk!* 00:07, 22 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete - Sounds like this was made up in one day. Could be speedied under A11. Aerospeed (Talk) 02:37, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment that's what I thought at first too...--Paul McDonald (talk) 19:01, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Although there is a few notable sources, I think it comes across as a game that might be very popular in the future. However. we can't make predictions into the future, so my opinion stands as delete. Aerospeed (Talk) 22:07, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * That may well be... but it's more than just some game that someone thought up. Although at their roots, I guess all games start as something someone just thought up...--Paul McDonald (talk) 00:39, 24 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep - I wasn't sure what do with this subject, because I am so used to analyzing the notability of a subject through the lens of the traditional media: published newspapers, magazines, books, journals, etc., and their online analogs. This subject presents an interesting case: virtually all of the sources yielded by a Google search are websites of high schools, school systems, colleges and universities (or their physical education department and/or intramural sports program) -- and a cursory Google search shows that there are a lot of them.  One thing is certain: flickerball is a sport and it exists.  As best I can make out, it was either invented at Davidson College or the U.S. Air Force Academy (they both claim it, and they both may have invented a version of it), and it is played predominantly as a sport within high school and college intramural programs.  It has had a peculiar popularity within the U.S. Air Force, where flickerball tournaments are organized among serving officers and enlisted men, and pick-up games happen almost spontaneously among off-duty personnel.  All of that is by way of background.  What I was able to find in the way of traditional sources were a newspaper article, a magazine article, and a book: Schenectady Gazette (1971); Parade (10/16/1955); and A Comparative Evaluation of Flicker Ball and Touch Football . . (1953).  All appear to be "significant" coverage per the general notability requirements of WP:GNG.  Given the popularity of flickerball as an intramural sport, I strongly suspect there are probably other significant hard-copy sources, including rules books and physical education text books, that cover the sport as well.  That is, however, an educated guess.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:21, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. The sources turned up by Dirtlawyer1 and Paul McDonald (though the Parade article is behind a paywall) seem to be sufficient to establish notability. It's to be hoped that someone will use those sources to improve and reference the article. (I think that rather than being "a game that might be very popular in the future", this is likely to be a game—or family of similar games—that was more popular in the past, which may account for the paucity of third-party sources online.) Deor (talk) 12:39, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Having read the various online sources, I think I can safely say that flickerball is never going to be a widespread varsity sport at North American high school and universities, nor does it have any real potential to become a professional spectator sport. It was designed to be played in physical education classes or college intramural leagues; there is no substantial physical contact, no equipment is required except a ball (unlike American football, which is hugely expensive to equip a team), and can even be played on a co-ed basis.  I think it stays in that PE/intramurals niche, and will continue to be popular among certain organizations like the USAF for similar reasons.  That having been said, I think it rises to the level of notability per GNG.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:20, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.