Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Four Sisters Winery


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 04:09, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Four Sisters Winery

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Doesn’t meet WP:NORG, found no useful sources that were of a non-promotional variety in reliable sources. Suspect this was a COI article from the beginning. Equine-man (talk) 07:19, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:15, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Food and drink, Companies,  and New Jersey. AllyD (talk) 11:25, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wine-related deletion discussions. North America1000 12:27, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment They seem to have used two books about the wine business in New Jersey, but I'm unable to see how substantial the coverage is as they return 404 links. Does anyone have copies of the books? Oaktree b (talk) 18:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Now I live near there, so I may actually be able to get them near my local library. Ask me about air Cryogenic air (talk) 14:29, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * WeaklyStrongly keep AND comment, A: I don't think this was a COI, the author seems to be a guy who just likes NJ alcohol related articles and the 4 non documenting (ie NJ law or links to things like cold climate grapes) are solid sources (ie the Daily Record, Warren Record and Courrier Post, regional papers). So I would say it meets WP:NORG by there. OP did get me to do some research though on a local thing (and I fully declare I have no finical or economic or any interest in this field, this is just very odd to see a somewhat local article!). Ask me about air Cryogenic air (talk) 14:44, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * And let me see if it meets independent coverage
 * |One source from the paper of record in NJ, the Star Ledger so thats 1 source from a reliable local paper.
 * |Incidental so this is minus 1 on this merrit, even if this is the NYTimes, since its an incidental mention and not the focus of the article
 * |Trade show/Association coverage so its not an independent source
 * |This is a local paper, independent
 * |Now Business News is sort of like Business Insider and everyone who is 'deep' into Wikipedia or any online articles knows that Business Insider is ... a problematic source BUT its a source
 * |And another local source. I feel OP, you didn't read this, because I actually was trying to break it down, get the sources, even weigh them. The books are local so I have to do fieldwork to get them (and the author recently died so it might be actual field work in NJ(!), but it does meet WP:NORG on the merrits. Thank you and I am not trying to fight ok Ask me about air Cryogenic air (talk) 15:08, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep in light of sources added establishing notability per WP:GNG and WP:ORG. Agree that we need to assume good faith in this case; it didn't read to me as particularly promotional and it's clear the article creator has created many, many articles on related topics. For SIGCOV, I would point to the 2003 feature article in the Daily Record ("It's all in the family for Four Sisters Winery") and the New Jersey Wineries book published by Arcadia Publishing. There are many other sources cited in the article besides, which help in rounding out the article. Cielquiparle (talk) 11:55, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep In my opinion, the book mentions barely scrape by CORPDEPTH but they do, therefore sources exist that meet the criteria for notability and topic is notable.  HighKing++ 16:16, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. Very marginal case, as the New York Times article only mentions the winery briefly and the articles in the Daily Record (New Jersey) and The Star-Ledger, while being substantially about the winery, are arguably local papers rather than regional ones.  Nonetheless, cumulatively the subject of the article seems to meet WP:SIGCOV. Fiachra10003 (talk) 01:49, 13 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.