Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frédéric Veseli


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. —Tom Morris (talk) 12:29, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Frédéric Veseli

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Contested PROD; original concern was that this player fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. GiantSnowman 18:25, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 18:26, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:35, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. -- WikHead (talk) 18:51, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. Velo  ciraptor  888  18:56, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Any particular reason? Mattythewhite (talk) 19:07, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete - per nom. Coverage is routine, meaning he fails WP:GNG, and until he makes his pro debut, he fails WP:NSPORT as well. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 00:50, 2 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - per nom.  – HonorTheKing (talk) 11:05, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. In the words of an unnamed user on the Frederic Veseli talk page: "Any player who is/was ever in the senior squad of one of the top clubs in the world is notable. Let alone 2. He's even more notable as he is one of the very few players who have made the switch from City to United, last player who had made the same move I can think of is Ryan Giggs nearly 20 years ago. He also captained Switzerland to victory in the U17 World Cup. If that is not notable enough, I don't know what is." Vlad259 (talk) 13:42, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Carlos Tevez, Owen Hargreaves, Terry Cooke have done so since. The big difference: those three played a professional for United before moving to City, and furthermore they actually played for City. Has Veseli played a professional match for United? Also, did Veseli ever play a professional match for City? Stevo1000 (talk) 00:45, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Tevez, Hargreaves and Cooke went from United to City, not City to United as Veseli did. – PeeJay 23:23, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * False - please have a read of WP:N, WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL (among others) to learn about what is considered notable on Wikipedia, and what is not. GiantSnowman 13:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * "Unnamed user" here. I'd say Keep but it's perfectly fine with me if it's decided in the end to delete this simply because if you guys want to waste time deleting a page only to restore it later - even though utterly pointless - in the end it doesn't change a thing. Btw, should I ask what are those policies on notability for? Why were they written in the first place? Is that because of entries like this which everybody know even if deleted will be restored sooner or later? Or is that to avoid people writing biographical articles about their moms because in their opinions their moms have the largest breast & most beautiful ass in the world? So, ladies & gentlemen, before you all decided you'd rather act like robots I urge you to at least think about this.--61.45.52.140 (talk) 23:33, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * In addition to what I wrote earlier, it can be argued that he satisfy the requirement because: "Players, managers and referees who have represented their country in any officially sanctioned senior international competition (including the Olympics) are notable as they have achieved the status of participating at the highest level of football". Ok, had he achieved the status of participating at the highest level of football? He surely had, he participated in the U17 World Cup, even captained his team to victory. Yes, it's not the senior World Cup but it's the highest level of football for his age group, kind of like the women World Cup, it's certainly not really the highest level of football (women don't know how to play football, I only watch it because I like to see boobs bounce around), it's the highest level of football for their group. Moreover, it'd be ridiculous to say the U17 World Cup is notable enough to have such a long entry here but the guy who captained the team which won that same tournament is not notable enough to have an entry.--61.45.52.140 (talk) 23:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Firstly, it has been long established that youth caps do not confer notability – that's why WP:NFOOTBALL states "Players, managers and referees who have represented their country in any officially sanctioned senior international competition" (my emphasis). Secondly, it is not the highest level of football for his age group - someone at the age of 16 can still compete in full internationals (the record youngest age for a full international cap is 13). And lastly, it is not ridiculous to suggest that a tournament has an article but its competitors don't - this is standard for hundreds of competitions (e.g. the Isthmian League and the clubs that play in it). Number   5  7  00:00, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * You missed the point fully. Firstly, players of any age can compete in a senior competition but senior players cannot play in a U17 tournament, let's think of a more appropriate analogy: the paralympic, it's certainly not the highest level but it's surely the highest level for the group of disabled people, disabled people can still compete in the Olympic and a few have done just that but people who are not disabled cannot compete in the paralympic. Secondly, it is NOT ridiculous to suggest a tournament has an article but its competitors don't, that I DO agree but again you completely missed the point, I never said all players who had played in the U17 World Cup deserve an entry but this is not just any player, this is the guy who captained the team which won the damn tournament, and it IS ridiculous to suggest a tournament is notable enough to have an entry but the captain of the winning team who played in every single match doesn't (if I remember correctly). And lastly, like I wrote earlier and I quote again: "before you all decided you'd rather act like robots I urge you to at least think about this" but you again failed to understand, so to make this concise, as I understand it, that particular line of the policy means a player is notable if he had participated at the highest level of football - represented their country in any officially sanctioned senior international competition is highest level of football (I do see the senior part btw) - the question here is whether U17 World Cup is the highest level of football?--61.45.52.140 (talk) 00:16, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * No, the U17 World Cup is not the highest level of football. That would be the World Cup, and for U23 players, the Olympics. The spirit of criterion #1 of WP:NFOOTY is that players who have played in the highest level of football would have received significant media coverage; this is not the case with our player here. – Kosm  1  fent  08:22, 3 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - This player has not passed WP:GNG and has not made any competitive, first-team appearances for a professional club, so he fails WP:ATHLETE too. – PeeJay 16:13, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:NFOOTBALL. Recreate if he ever makes it as a first teamer. Number   5  7  23:26, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. He has not played in a fully professional league or for his country's senior national team. – Kosm  1  fent  08:22, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL GauchoDude (talk) 19:10, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. WP:FOOTYN is of secondary importance here. Mainly delete because he fails WP:N. Notability should be established by non-trivial, reliable sources. Here this is not the case. Cloudz 679 06:18, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep.I think it should be left for now. It may well simply get put back on later anyhow.http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Veseli&action=edit# — Preceding unsigned comment added by Penang100 (talk • contribs) 23:34, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * How do you know? Do you have a crystal ball? – PeeJay 01:02, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete, per nom. Adam4267 (talk) 23:50, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.