Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frank Penale


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Kubigula (talk) 19:50, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Frank Penale

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Subject of the article does not appear to meet notability requirements as set forth in WP:GNG, WP:BIO, and/or WP:SOLDIER. Article was deprodded claiming that the subject is notable per WP:ANYBIO; I can only believe that the deprodding is due to an award by granted by the New York State Baseball Umpires Association, and was placed in the hall of fame of the Niagara Falls Umpire Association. That being said, it is my belief that the subject is not notable as there are zero mentions of the individual in any reliable news sources, only eight brief mentions in books (all whom are sourced directly from Wikipedia, and thus it can be argued those fall under WP:SPS), and slightly greater than 1,300 google search hits (none which are reliable sources). Although I honor the service of the late Frank Penale, I do not believe that he is notable. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 08:51, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 08:51, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 08:51, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 08:51, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 08:51, 15 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment; additionally regarding the award given by the New York State Baseball Umpires Association, it allegedly was renamed for the subject of this article. A search for the award comes up with just over 100 hits, none of which appear to be from reliable sources. Therefore, as the award is not "well-known and significant award or honor" as per WP:ANYBIO, the subject is not notable per ANYBIO. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 09:06, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. Got a full obituary in The Buffalo News, which looks like a pretty major newspaper, so I think there's a decent chance the guy meets the general notability guideline. Jenks24 (talk) 09:13, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. Subject meets WP:ANYBIO. Within his specific field (umpire) the subject has not only been named to the Hall of Fame, but has received a well-known and significant award. Additionally, the New York State Baseball Umpires Association "Umpire of the Year Award" is actually called the Frank Penale Award in his honor. In accordance with WP:ANYBIO, he has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field. Best regards,  Cind.   amuse  (Cindy) 21:36, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * However, per WP:ANYBIO the award has to be "well-known and significant award or honor". This alleged Frank Penale Award is not "well known and significant" outside of the awarding body, the New York State Baseball Umpires Association, which itself does not appear to be notable (zero news hits and one book hit). --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 21:44, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. What is up with using "alleged" throughout this conversation? Its use may indicate bias or an issue with POV. The guideline specifically calls for being recognized as "part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field". With being HOF honor and having the Umpire of the Year Award named in your honor? This clearly meets the WP:ANYBIO criteria. On a completely different note, got a kick out of the looking at the baseball digest link to see my good friend and homeboy Ryne Sandberg. Best regards,  Cind.   amuse  (Cindy) 10:24, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply; just because an award exist doesn't make the award "well known and significant" per WP:ANYBIO. For instance, an elementary school can name a teacher their "Teacher of the Year", but that doesn't make the award "well known and significant" which is a requirement of an awardee being notable. ANYBIO is more for awards such as the Nobel Peace Prize or the Medal of Honor or Victoria Cross (as examples). These awards are notable in and of themselves, and awarded in such a limited manor, that individuals who receive the award are therefore presumed to be notable per ANYBIO. As for the alleged existence of an award named for the subject of the article whom we are attempting to determine their notability, doing a search for the alleged award does not bring up any tertiary reliable source. Cheers! --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:38, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete - It appears that the arguments for keeping this article are that: a) an umpiring award has been named in his honor, and b) an obituary was published in The Buffalo News. However, the award is one given by a local chapter of a state umpires association; I don't see that satisfying WP:ANYBIO, which refers to "a well-known and significant award or honor"—I get zero hits when I search for "Frank Penale Award" in Google News archives. Regarding the obituary, I guess I'm just not willing to accept an obituary in a regional newspaper as sufficient to establish notability; newspapers regularly publish obituaries for people who are not notable in an encyclopedic context. Furthermore, although the subject's obituary appears to be behind a pay wall, I notice that the headline ("Frank R. Penale, Longtime Nabisco Worker") doesn't highlight either his umpiring or his military service, suggesting that the obituary writer didn't consider these activities to be especially notable. Ultimately, it comes down to what Wikipedia is not—it is not a memorial site, it is not a directory, and it is not an indiscriminate collection of information. The justifications for this article seem to fit in those categories. BRMo (talk) 04:07, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. Obituaries are not indicative of notability, but generally offers leads to additional content. I'm not that invested to pay for access. I don't support notability based on the Nabisco or military career. The Frank Penale Award is the "Umpire of the Year Award" presented by the New York State Baseball Umpires Association, which is indicative of "part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field". This is the notability criteria presented. Best regards,  Cind.   amuse  (Cindy) 05:22, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Reply - No, I think the article is actually incorrect when it says that the "Tony DeVivo Award," which is given by the New York State Baseball Umpires Association, was renamed in Penale's honor. Looking at the two websites that are the only references in the article, it's clear that these are two separate awards, and that the "Frank Penale Award" is given by the Niagara Falls chapter of the state association. Regardless, I don't see any evidence that either of these awards are themselves notable (that is, there doesn't seem to be any coverage of these awards by recognized sources other than the associations themselves). In my opinion, that leaves a poor argument for the notability of the subject. BRMo (talk) 14:27, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 11:53, 23 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment; per WP:CANVASS to get additional editors to comment, I have left a message at the WikiProjects for Military History, New York (state), and Baseball. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 21:51, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:GNG with lack of multiple sources of independent significant coverage. One obituary is the main source, and it has not been determined to be independent (written by family member?)  The Niagara Falls Umpire Association that seem to be his main claim to possible notability, is a service for "High School and Summer League baseball".  This seems local, and a job someone does in their spare time after work and on weekends. Lacking significant independent sources on the person or even the league, this doesnt seem notable for WP.—Bagumba (talk) 23:36, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete fails to meet requirements of GNG - lack of siginificant coverage by third party reliable sources. GraemeLeggett (talk) 15:07, 4 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.