Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frasier's Curse (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  MBisanz  talk 09:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Frasier's Curse
AfDs for this article: 
 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Since the last AfD from two months ago ended in a no consensus, common sense tells me I should not do anything with this abandoned article without seeking input from AfD again. The article is still unencyclopedic (WP:NOT), still non-notable (WP:N), and Frasier (season 6) already has a non-copied plot summary of equal depth so that nothing needs to be merged per the GFDL. No good reason left to keep this article and/or its page history, so Delete. – sgeureka t•c 11:41, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Toss the salad and scramble the eggs on this one. Looks like the last discussion ended up in a long argument and observations that people shouldn't utter the "m-word" in an AfD discussion.  If anybody cared enough to mention it in the article about Season 6, they would have done so already, I'm sure.  There's no indication that this episode was considered independently notable (and no, an episode guide with the words "New York Times" in the title doesn't mean that this was printed in the Times).  Though some episodes of a TV show are memorable, such as "Who Shot J.R.?", the notability of a TV series doesn't mean that notability rubs off on every single episode of the series.  This is a holdover from Wikipedia's TV guide days.  There is a |Frasierpedia for anyone interested in writing it up there.  Mandsford (talk) 19:09, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Why aren't comments like this forthcoming in disputes over porn star articles puffed full of awards nominations that aren't really notable? Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:20, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per Mandsfor's points. Ol Yeller  '''Talktome 19:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment As I wrote at the previous AFD, you did use several exact phrases from the original article in the season article: "his divorce with Lilith and being left at the altar by Diane"; "not keen to go"; "unemployed, single and living with his father"; "a catastrophic job interview at another radio station on the same day"; "is very cross"; "walking outside the supermarket in shabby clothes pushing a shopping trolley", etc. There is some superficial paraphrasing, but it's clear that the text in the season article is not wholly original. Thus, we at least need to keep this article's page history. (And why not? "Frasier's Curse" is at least useful as a search term, no?) Zagalejo^^^ 05:11, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * To what level does wikipedia/GFDL need to attribute information? Whole paragraphs or sentences - that is reasonable and common practise. Descriptive run-of-the-mill phrases of a few words - by that measure, wikipedia already and irreparably consists of unattributed non-original information entirely (not to mention that plot summaries have a certain copyright anyway no matter what the wording). "Frasier's Curse" can serve as a search term through e.g. delete & redirect !votes as well as just redirect. But I can't single-handledly redirect this article without being accused of intentionally flying in the face of the previous AfD (seen this, done that). – sgeureka t•c 07:48, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know what the cut-off point is for attributing information, but I think your text in the season article is close enough that we should play on the safe side. Some of those phrases are fairly long, and most could be worded differently with minimal effort. Zagalejo^^^ 18:15, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. Far too soon to reopen an AFD. I think that reopening the whole episodes dispute is a gigantic waste of time. There is certainly enough information available to write short, decent articles -- adding verifiable third-party information like ratings (published weekly going back years and years in USA today, and daily for quite a few years in the NY Times), DVD availability, etc rather than interminable in-universe stuff. The articles on lesser-known professional athletes would be good models. The necessary information is out there -- but it's mostly print-based. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk • contribs) 22:38, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete: non-notable episode sufficiently covered on season 6 article. JamesBurns (talk) 09:30, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep and speedy close this blatant attempt at forum shopping. Nominator claims that "I can't single-handledly redirect this article without being accused of intentionally flying in the face of the previous AfD (seen this, done that)", but this is not true, a "no consensus" AfD has never been a mandate against redirecting or merging. Nominator has made no attempt either to boldly redirect this article or even discuss redirection, despite having no compunction against boldly redirecting episodes from the previous four seasons. None of those articles needed to be deleted, and neither does this one. Nominator has completely ignored the advice of WP:BEFORE ("Consider making the page a useful redirect or proposing it be merged rather than deleted. Neither of these actions requires an AfD"), WP:EPISODE ("Avoid listing episodes for AfD unless they are completely unverifiable and original research"), and the previous closer's rationale ("Consensus is that AfD is not for merge discussions and that this content is appropriate on Wikipedia in some form"). Nominator is also entirely ignoring opposition to his previous actions here. I'm not opposed to merging and redirecting, but I am opposed to abusing the AfD process like this, when deletion is entirely unnecessary. DHowell (talk) 02:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank God that the official merger discussion (linked from the merge proposal template) is at Talk:List_of_Frasier_episodes then, where no opposition (or any input) has been forthcoming for three months now. (But this article doesn't need to be merged, so it may as well be deleted, and AfD is the only forum to get that accomplished.) After the joys of this, this and this where a group of people put incredible amounts of time to use bold mergers against me, believe me when I say that I know when to risk feeding their bad-faith accusations for my long-term harm, and when I shouldn't (like here). Can editors of this AfD now please judge the article on its merrits, or will this seemingly unfixable, nonnotable, unencyclopedic article have to undergo a third AfD to get deleted (or at least redirected)? – sgeureka t•c 09:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can find someone to confirm that the page history can be deleted without violating the GFDL, then I'd be willing to vote delete, just to end this. Zagalejo^^^ 18:41, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.