Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/French–Armenian Agreement (1916)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is that this topic does not merit a standalone article, while a redirect did not gain consensus. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 05:58, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

French–Armenian Agreement (1916)

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The title of the article, "French–Armenian Agreement (1916)", is unsourced, and I can find no source that indicates there ever was a document with this title (or this title with the date 1916 removed, or its French-language equivalent). All references to it on google are just recycled Wikipedia content. The title is also misleading (probably intentionally) because it suggests a military or political treaty between two nations, France and Armenia - but no military or political entity called Armenia existed in 1916. What does appear to have existed is a French military decision to recruit non-French citizens (such as Armenians and Syrians) for its proposed Légion d'Orient, and then a French approach made to Boghos Nubar for help in gathering possible recruits amongst diaspora Armenians worldwide and Armenian refugees in the middle east - in other words nothing as formal as an agreement, and absolutely nothing that would justify the status of a title such as this. This content, and the rest of the content in this article, should be covered by the article French Armenian Legion. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 16:29, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 07:29, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 07:29, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Armenia-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 07:29, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 02:47, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete -- unneeded content fork since the material is already covered in French Armenian Legion. Not enough for a stand-alone article. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:49, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Redirect to French Armenian Legion, which says there was an agreement in November 1916 in Egypt between an Armenian delegation and the French. This was clearly part of the effort to bolster the allied war effort at this period, resulting in a number of agreements that some have since wished were not made.  Armenia was not a country at this time, but it was an ethnicity that was subject to genocide by the Ottoman Turks.  A wish by a delegation of refugees to take up arms against their persecutors and of the allies to encourage that is wholly credible.  However, I agree that it does not merit an article of its own.  Peterkingiron (talk) 12:03, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * However, the French Armenian Legion article is also unsourced for a claim that there was an agreement called "French–Armenian Agreement (1916)". It does appear that some approach by (or to?) the French (at a time when Allied manpower was becoming stretched and conscription was being introduced) was made to (or by?) Armenian groups and community leaders in order for them to facilitate the recruitment of Armenians who were not French citizens into the French armed forces as part of its Légion d'Orient. But a group or a group of individuals agreeing to do something is not the same thing as an "Agreement", which implies some sort of formalized treaty or convention between state entities - so I would rather the French–Armenian Agreement title was gone completely and did not become a redirect. Let's not continue with the implication that a document with this title ever existed, or that academic sources have used this term to refer to whatever the actual agreement was. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:04, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * To clarify the origin of the name of this alleged "Agreement" - it originates in Armenian Genocide denialist literature originating in Turkey. It is part of the pseudo-history conspiracy theory produced by Turkey that there were, and still are, "Powers" that are out to destroy Turkey, and that there was no Armenian Genocide but merely Armenians rebelling against the Ottoman Empire as part of that project to destroy Turkey and a justified response by Turkey to put down that rebellion. The title is meant to suggest an actual military agreement existed between Armenians and one of those Powers - thus supporting the allegation that Armenians were conspiring to destroy the Ottoman Empire. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 13:44, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — UY Scuti Talk  19:41, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment -- similar to the nominator, I do not see a reason to redirect this, as the alleged agreement likely did not exist, or does not amount to an "agreement" between two nations, as the title of the article suggests. K.e.coffman (talk) 19:21, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 19:22, 20 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete -- no substantial notability shown for a stand alone article, nor indication the agreement amounted to anything substantial; if it in fact it could be considered a formal agreement. Kierzek (talk) 13:04, 21 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.