Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Freshman-Sophomore College


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to List of Stanford University residence halls. &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 00:41, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Freshman-Sophomore College

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Not sufficient independent significance to necessitate its own page Asdklf&#59; (talk) 21:46, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:53, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:53, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:53, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge to List of Stanford University residence halls. Not separately notable. If this is the consensus, I will undertake the merge. --MelanieN (talk) 22:29, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Has significant and interesting differences from traditional residence halls. Recognizing and explaining these differences and characteristics would not fit reasonably into the layout of the current page List of Stanford University residence halls, making a reasonable merger equivalent to a full deletion. --EAR47 (talk) 00:18, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Also note that Roble Hall and Florence Moore Hall, other dormitories at Stanford University, have similar pages which are regarded to have sufficient independent importance. --EAR47 (talk) 00:18, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * This article already has more information about FroSoCo than any of the halls on the List of Stanford University residence halls page (and comparable content to the main articles on specific halls, as stated above). Gneisss (talk) 00:41, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The structure of List of Stanford University residence halls would require putting all the information on FroSoCo as a subsubsubheading (as FroSoCo constitutes part of Sterling Quad), which would result in an unwieldy merger. Gneisss (talk) 00:41, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment Roble and FloMo have much longer histories, and thus much better sourcing, that FroSoCo, which has only primary sources. However, Sterling Quad may well deserve an article of its own, which would be a better merge target that the list of residences. --MelanieN (talk) 00:53, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge as failing WP:GNG. ElKevbo (talk) 02:49, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment Sterling Quad is newer than FloMo and Roble so not so much history; it is part of the Governor's Corner complex and all of which was built at the same time so perhaps creating a Governor's Corner article might be a better place.  BTW the FroSoCo program was started by John C. Bravman now president of Bucknell. BTW SLE is probably the closest kin [or rival] to it at Stanford.  --Erp (talk) 03:46, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I have actually started working on an article about Sterling Quad. Give me a day or two. If I don't find enough sourcing for Sterling Quad I might expand it into Governor's Corner. Something there deserves an article. --MelanieN (talk) 03:54, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I believe FroSoCo is worthy of having its own page. The bottom line is, FroSoCo is its own independent residential college on the Stanford University campus. FroSoCo offers unique programs and has its own dean. It has a fairly extensive history that merits its own article. If Roble/Toyon Hall can have their own page, then FroSoCo should definitely have its own. Even SLE has its own page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.12.252.4 (talk) 07:29, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Not to play the WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS game, but you might note that while the ones you mentioned do have articles, many of Stanford's biggest dorms including Stern and Wilbur do not. It's all a matter of how much independent sourcing can be found about the subject. Our guideline is still WP:GNG. --MelanieN (talk) 21:50, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep: No original research is necessary (the information is well-sourced), and it does not violate WP:GNG Gneisss (talk) 10:46, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure it doesnt require original research, but it does not fulfill GNG because those sources yes directly address the existence of the dorm, but do not in-depth cover its unique and notable nature. likewise, all but one are branched off the university's publications, so they only count as a single source. and again, the fact that it is on a map in the one independent coverage doesnt mean it's notable.Asdklf&#59; (talk) 23:04, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment I am working on an article about Sterling Quad, which would include pretty much all the information from this article. However, I am having trouble finding independent sources. Possibly it could be expanded again, to be about Governor's Corner. Any of you who want to help with this article are invited to come and edit it at User:MelanieN/Sterling Quad. --MelanieN (talk) 01:00, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not getting very far with that draft. It has the same problem as this article: lack of independent references. Everything is from Stanford itself with one story from the Stanford Daily. I am still recommending a merge to List of Stanford University residence halls. --MelanieN (talk) 21:46, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The article notes: "The Freshman-Sophomore College (FroSoCo) has a new dean, only the program’s second since its founding in 1999. Nadeem J.Z. Hussain ‘90, a professor of philosophy, has been tapped to lead the residential program, which houses freshmen and sophomores on West campus. Prior to Hussain, FroSoCo has had only one dean, its founder John Bravman ‘79 M.S. ’81 Ph.D. ’85. ...  The FroSoCo program itself is in no danger of being scaled back in the wake of Bravman’s departure, according to administrators. Instead, according to Etchemendy, the University is looking into initiating more programs similar to FroSoCo in upcoming years."  The article notes: "According to the Stanford University Residential Education website, FroSoCo, or Freshman Sophomore College, “provides the vibrant residential intellectual community of a small, elite, liberal-arts college while providing enhanced access to the academic resources of one of the world’s premier research universities.” But where did this idea come from, and what exactly does that mean? The program was implemented during the 1999-2000 academic year by John Bravman, the former vice provost for undergraduate education at Stanford. Bravman wanted to add a residential component to undergraduate education at Stanford, and he did so by combining two traditional Stanford dorms—Adams and Schiff—to create the college. Bravman acted as the college’s dean until 2010, when he left Stanford to become president of Bucknell University. Dr. Nadeem Hussain ’90 took over Bravman’s position and now lives with his wife across the street from the college."  The article notes: "The berries were provided by James Ousey ‘16 at a small student-run class called “The Chemistry of Taste” that he taught at Freshman Sophomore College’s (FroSoCo) Sophomore Fellows (SoFo) program earlier this month. So far this year, seven SoFo classes have been taught on subjects ranging from calligraphy and podcasts to space exploration and murals. The student-run classes are about an hour long and are usually attended by six to 15 students. SoFos began in FroSoCo in 2001 to increase the intellectual vitality of the community."  The article notes: "While Freshman Sophomore College (FroSoCo) may be known on campus for its quiet and studious environment, on one evening every quarter, FroSoCafé brings lively discussion in a special format to the West Campus dorm. Hosted by Nadeem Hussain, dean of FroSoCo, at his residence, FroSoCafé brings students together to discuss a variety of intellectual and personal issues at five to six cafe tables, each with its own unique discussion topic."</li> <li> From https://net.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/P7102cs22.pdfWebCite: "Freshman-Sophomore College (FroSoCo) GroupSpace: The third GroupSpace location is in the residence computer cluster of FroSoCo, home of 185 freshmen and sophomores interested in broad intellectual exploration of the liberal arts and sciences. The space is available 24 hours for FroSoCo residents and their guests. Seating for up to three is available in the same con - figuration as the Toyon GroupSpace. It is integrated into the existing computer cluster, which is equipped with eight PCs and Macs, a laser printer, a scanner, and whiteboards."</li> <li> The Google Books search snippet notes: "The new Freshman/Sophomore College allows students to live and study together for two years. Physical Description Outside of the ..." The rest of the text is cut off, but it is likely to be significant coverage because the next heading is "Physical Description".</li> <li> The book notes: "Freshman-Sophomore College (FroSoCo) Floors: 3 Total Occupany: 185 Bathrooms: Shared by Floor  Co-Ed: Yes  Percentage of First-Year Students: 50%  Room Types: Two-room doubles  Special Features: Lounge, Grand Piano, TV, DVD, VCR, Ping-Pong, Pool Table, Laundry; residents receive special funding for extra activities"</li> </ol> Analysis of sources The four articles from The Stanford Daily provide substantial history about Freshman-Sophomore College. One discusses the Sophomore Fellows (SoFo) program, and another discusses FroSoCafé. The book sources provide the independent coverage necessary to demonstrate that Freshman-Sophomore College is notable. There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Freshman-Sophomore College to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 22:58, 9 February 2015 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * Question, would we consider the sources from The Stanford Daily, a student run paper from the university itself, to be sufficiently independent enough to qualify as WP:RS in this case? My gut feeling would be no, but I'm happy to be corrected by someone with more detailed knowledge of the university.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 13:19, 10 February 2015 (UTC).
 * I was going to say the same thing. In the past we have usually held that reporting about a college subject in that college's newspaper does not establish notability (although it can certainly be used as a source of facts). If something is written about there but nowhere else - not even the newspaper of the nearby town - it suggests that the topic is of importance only to people connected to that school. --MelanieN (talk) 16:48, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Freshman-Sophomore College has received significant coverage in several books in addition to The Stanford Daily articles. Per Notability: "'Significant coverage' addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material." Cunard (talk) 20:36, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <small style="color:#999;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:lightgrey 0.3em 0.3em 0.15em;">&mdash; <big style="color:#ffa439">Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 20:20, 10 February 2015 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, N ORTH A MERICA 1000 14:04, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge into Stanford University or one of its many sub-articles. Subject has not received significant coverage in multiple non-primary or non-secondary reliable sources. Yes there is mention in secondary reliable sources, and there is significant coverage in at least one tertiary source, but one source IMHO does not met the requirements set forth in WP:GNG. Therefore, since its existence can be verified, and it falls within the scope of the article Stanford University it should be included in that article or one of its sub-articles. If more than one tertiary reliable source can be found that gives the subject significant coverage my opinion can be persuaded.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 06:07, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd argue that the book sources provide significant coverage about the subject—enough to meet WP:GNG. But a merge would be fine with me too. Cunard (talk) 20:32, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Merge to List of Stanford University residence halls or an appropriate subarticle. Even if this special theme dorm technically passes GNG, it's not unusual or distinctive enough to warrant a separate article when there's room for the content in the broader coverage of residence facilities. --Arxiloxos (talk) 17:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.