Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frumentius (Pope Joan)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 17:03, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Frumentius (Pope Joan)

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

A secondary character from a 19th-century romantic novel that doesn't have an article; no notability of his own. The novel is Emmanuel Rhoides' Papess Joanne, a fictional account of the supposed medieval female Pope named Joan, which an anonymous user has been touting as genuine history for the last year and a half. However, it's not, and the character Frumentius does not appear extensively in any version of the Pope Joan legend outside of this novel. This had been redirected to Pope Joan, but the parenthetical makes it an unlikely search target.Cúchullain t/ c 15:47, 7 May 2010 (UTC)  Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:01, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:01, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

Delete It is very strange to have an article on a character on a novel which does not have an article, and whose notability is not yet established. PatGallacher (talk) 13:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. I can find no evidence of treatment of this fictional character in reliable secondary sources. Deor (talk) 14:19, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * keep the on;y reason the novel does not have an article is our ethnocentrism; the author is Greek; the novel is in Greek, and the novel has a long  article with dozens of references in the Greek WP., which calls it " one of the greatest Greek novels, " . Agreed we need a translation of that article more, but let's not throw out what we have.  DGG ( talk ) 05:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Even in the lengthy Greek article, this character is mentioned in passing, in a single sentence of the plot summary (with no indication of any source that deals with him); the Greek WP doesn't have a separate article about the character. Whether we need an article on the novel Pope Joan has nothing to do with the merits of this article. Deor (talk) 10:46, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, this isn't an AfD for the novel. It's an AfD for a person who the article initially implied was a historical person, but in reality is a secondary character from the novel. There is no possible way to expand this article, and there are no sources specifically about him. And there's no risk of throwing away what we have; we have an article on Emmanuel Rhoides, which discusses the novel.--Cúchullain t/ c 13:07, 15 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete and redirect to the novel: cna't find sources on this and satisfied that the Greeks can't find it either. Sufficient to mention it in the plot summary of the novel. Shooterwalker (talk) 17:38, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That doesn't make sense. You can delete or you can change to a redirect, but you can't do both.  It does not make much sense to redirect to the novel since it doesn't have an article. PatGallacher (talk) 17:46, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * We delete and redirect all the time... but the lack of article on the novel is confusing... i guess no redirect makes sense. Shooterwalker (talk) 19:06, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. Or maybe, you should ask the author of the article to post a G7 and finish the matter. One should notice however that originally, Frumentius (Pope Joan) had been a live link inside the Pope Joan article but an editor here deleted it three times in the past. 94.71.203.203 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:15, 16 May 2010 (UTC).
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.