Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gamestar (Australia)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. I cannot find the keep arguments to be based in policy. Stifle (talk) 19:04, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Gamestar (Australia)

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Article about a gaming magazine. There are three references: one to a LinkedIn profile of a former contributor (not a reliable source and in any case, nothing that indicates any notability), one to the Sydney Morning Herald (only an in-passing mention of the magazine), and one to a source that basically just confirms that it existed. The article contains a long list of contributors, none of which appears to be notable (not that it would matter much if they were, as notability is WP:NOTINHERITED. There are also three external links, two to library catalogs (again just confirming that the thing existed and WorldCat shows that only 2 libraries in Australia hold this magazine), the third one to the Tumblr page of a magazine collector (not allowable under WP:ELNO#11). The magazine existed only for a brief period (1995-1995) and apparently failed to make much of an impact. Does not meet WP:GNG, hence: Delete. Randykitty (talk) 05:08, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete - fails WP:GNG per nom. Ansh666 06:45, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - Although unless a miracle happens and the publisher hands me the keys to their archives and I get phone calls from former contributors, how can I stop you from deleting? That's ALL the information ANYONE can find. I seriously challenge someone to find more, NOTABLE sources. (And "failed to make much of an impact" may be true sales wise, but not reader wise.)- CertifiableNut (talk) 10:01, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment While it may certainly be true that the magazine made an impact "reader wise", you have to realize that this is intended to be a serious encyclopedia and we therefore need objective sources for this. Keys to archives and phone calls from former contributors would not help a bit, because those would be primary sources, that are not independent of the subject itself. What is needed are third party sources confirming notability. --Randykitty (talk) 12:46, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 00:32, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:33, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:33, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Keep Largely on procedural grounds: Google searching a magazine that was briefly published in the mid-1990s is not a good way of seeking to determine notability given that this is the pre-internet saturation era. I'd suggest looking for references in online newspaper articles and relevant trade publications first. Nick-D (talk) 10:59, 29 July 2013 (UTC) Comment Either the newspapers/etc are gone, impossible to find or each newspaper comes with ungodly fees/subscriptions before you can even READ them. We only have 7 states, and I doubt all of those covered the magazine too. - CertifiableNut (talk) 11:12, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I can read comprehensive and recent newspaper archives (such as Factivia) for free through both my local library and the National Library of Australia's websites, and everyone in Australia should have the same access given that the NLA gives out membership cards online for free. Nick-D (talk) 11:48, 29 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment I don't really get the "procedural" part. Nobody can prove a negative. No AfD nomination would ever be possible if one had to prove that no sources exist. WP:BEFORE requires that one tries to find sources as best as possible. If they cannot be found, then the onus is on those !voting "keep" to provide a good reasoning. But just saying that something might be out there is not what I call good reasoning. this magazine existed only for a brief period. I cannot have had much success, or the publisher would not have pulled the plug so fast. That suggests to me that it is highly likely that no independent sources exist. Of course, as said, there is no proof that such sources really don't exist. However, our common policy in cases like this, where sources cannot be found, is to delete and re-create if ever good sources do crop up at a later date. --Randykitty (talk) 14:01, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * My procedural concern is that you've looked for sources only in places where there's no reasonable expectation that sources could be found, and not consulted more viable potential sources. Nick-D (talk) 11:16, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I've looked at every place that I physically was able to consult and can reasonably be expected to look. What do you want, only allow people that are in Australia and have certified that they have browsed through paper archives to take this to AfD? I have satisfied WP:BEFORE. If there are sources that I missed despite that, please give them. If not, there's no procedural concern. According to your reasoning, no article on a subject that pre-dates the Internet could ever be brought to AfD. --Randykitty (talk) 11:35, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Delete Fails GNG, no reliable sources to demonstrate notability. Agree with Randykitty, he has fulfilled checking criteria of WP:BEFORE so there is no such thing as a procedural keep.The article can be moved to Article Incubator or userspace where editors with access to print archives have the opportunity to bring it up to scratch 188.222.98.201 (talk) 07:27, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.