Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gary Hertzog


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. v/r - TP 16:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Gary Hertzog

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Comes close to but does not meet WP:ATH or WP:BIO. Hertzog was drafted by the New Orleans Saints in the 1967 NFL Draft but never appeared in a regular season game. He did play in the Continental Football League, but that is not recognized as a top-level professional league per WP:NGRIDIRON. He appears to have at one time held a Willamette University school shot put record, but otherwise does not appear to meet WP:NTRACK. As for his teaching career, I'm sure he does great things for the students he teaches, but I see nothing from that career to indicate that he meets WP:BIO. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 14:47, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Oregon-related deletion discussions.  — &mdash; alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 16:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  — &mdash; alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 16:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  — &mdash; alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 16:38, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Delete: this article blatantly fails each of the two criteria at WP:ANYBIO. Hertzog never broke a sports record and he hasn't been written about in a variety of reliable, secondary sources. Jsayre64  (talk)  17:28, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - Not the most notable, but a search through the Oregonian archives (1860-1987) provides 19 hits, many trivial, but given his age, we are dealing with the FUTON bias, and if the Oregonian has that many articles, I would hypothesize there would be at least that many for the Salem paper, and it appears he was from Wenatchee, WA, so I'm sure their local paper would have a few stories about the local kid who was drafted into the NFL. I would not be surprised if the NOLA paper also had a small article about their draft pick, maybe a second when he signed. All in all, that tells me the topic of Hertzog passes WP:BIO, and it is the topic we are judging. Aboutmovies (talk) 03:18, 21 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment: if enough information can be found to make Hertzog notable enough for his own article, I'll certainly be willing to change my opinion about this. Jsayre64   (talk)  03:23, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Although some more information was added, I stand by my original stance because, as an editor said below, Hertzog doesn't pass WP:BIO. Jsayre64   (talk)  01:58, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 21:25, 21 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment:If we put barriers on the level of athletic achievement, whether it be state or schools records that have been broken, we might as well delete many of the other athletes that have broken seemingly useless school records in the Wikipedia Directory. Although Gary Hertzog has only achieved mediocre athletic achievements, he has plenty of newspaper articles backing the claims towards him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zman.Firestar (talk • contribs) 17:19, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS as to why that type of argument fails (or at least the first part of your argument). Aboutmovies (talk) 00:21, 23 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete. While college athletes can qualify under WP:GNG, there needs to be significant non-trivial coverage in mainstream media sources.  Passing mentions in game coverage are considered to be routine.  I've searched several databases (including NewsLibrary, newspaperarchive.com, and Google news archives) and can't find even one article that is written about Hertzog as the main subject of the article.  I agree with Aboutmovies that FUTON bias can come into play with a player from this era, but I don't see any achievements that would lead me to believe in this case that there is significant coverage out there that we are missing.  His track accomplishments appear to have been at the community college level, and his football accomplishments were as a lineman for Willamette University which competes at the lowest rung of NCAA athletics (NCAA Division III).  Even the article creator, Zman.Firestar, concedes above that Hertzog never achieved more than "mediocre athletic achievements." Contrast this with another recent college football AfD (Articles for deletion/Joe Iacone) where research revealed multiple non-trivial stories even though the person played at a small college in the 1960s.  Finally, I note that all but one of the article creator's edits are about "Hertzog" and the early ones are in the nature of vandalism.  See, e.g., this diff "(Fear The Hertzog!)", this diff (inserting gibberish about "The Hertzog" into an article about "Beefmaster"), and this diff (blanking the entire Costa Rica article with an image of a marijuana leaf).  Although under no obligation to do so, I would welcome any comment the article creator may have  as to whether or not he/she has a COI/relationship with the subject of the article.  Cbl62 (talk) 00:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note also that Zman.Firestar's only other new article (about an Oregon high school student) was speedily deleted earlier today. See User talk:Zman.Firestar. His article about "The Hertzog" (asserting that The Hertzog was "know for being the most powerful human on the planet" whose toe nail clipping destroyed the Roman and Egyptian empires) was also speedily deleted in February 2011. See User talk:Zman.Firestar. Cbl62 (talk) 01:05, 23 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete He doesn't seem to pass any relevant notability guideline.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:33, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment: Article creator has been indef blocked for vandalism. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 17:34, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.