Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gary Miller (Politician)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 07:35, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Gary Miller (Politician)

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Apart from the article title problems does this person meet the notability guidelines? This article is such a mess it's very hard to tell. Polly (Parrot) 20:28, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete I doubt very much he is the first gay school board member. Maybe the first "openly" gay one. But being "the first openly gay" anything does not confer inherent notability. The article does not appear to satisfy WP:BIO. The title is highly inappropriate, just like Mark --, Philandering Governor, or Larry --, Gay Senator. If the article somehow survives AFD, it should be moved to a neutral title such as Gary Miller (school board member) or some other encyclopedic title. See Gary Miller (disambiguation) for examples. Edison (talk) 20:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. I searched for sources online (more difficult when there are lots of Gary Millers) but I didn't find anything to establish notability.  ReverendWayne (talk) 22:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. How could the article's most central claim to notability even be proved? Drmies (talk) 22:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per all the wonderful reasons provided above. Also, this is likely an autobiography per the user name of the creator; also the user page of the page creator is a redirect to the article, probably needs to be undone? - SpacemanSpiff Calvin&#8225;Hobbes 22:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.  -- – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 01:31, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks like a great guy, very politically active, very sincere, very much the type of stand-up-and-do-the-right-thing person that the world needs more of. However, being elected at the school-board level is not, by itself, an assertion of notability - not even if he's the first openly-gay man to be elected to that position. Sorry, Mr Miller. DS (talk) 01:42, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Also noting copyvio issues if the article is kept . FT2 (Talk 01:49, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Gay or straight, he still fails WP:POLITICIAN. Niteshift36 (talk) 09:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment In the process of assessing a page called I want to talk to a live person for speedy deletion, I followed a link and came across this material, which I believe has been contributed by the subject of the article; I thought it was responsible to reproduce it here. Accounting4Taste: talk 22:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * This is copied from Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Gary Miller (Politician). Accounting4Taste: talk 22:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I have read all the comments. Here is my response

1.	I admit I am a newbie and perhaps I didn’t follow proper procedures. I find the instructions on Wikipedia written for computer nerds, but not for the average person like me. So I am doing my best to understand and anyone who has valid concerns, I am willing to read and respond accordingly.

2.	That said. Let me make some preliminary remarks first. I do not know any of the people who are making these concerns. I don’t know if you are gay or straight. Whether you are a leader in gay rights movement or whether you were a large contributor to the Prop 8 campaign. I don’t know whether you are saying “nay” because you honestly do not feel my achievements are not worthy or whether you have a bias against gays and don’t want Wikipedia to show anything which would put gays in positive light.

One of the people who responded was a minister (I don’t see his comments now for some reason). Now I know that there are many denominations which are supportive of the gay community such as Quakers, Unitarians, United Church of Christ, Metropolitan Community Churches and Reform Jews. But there are many denominations which have cause a lot of pain to the gay community such as Mormons, Southern Baptists, and Assembly of God. So I don’t know where you are coming from.

I do not mind making some editing changes, but I do not want to be removed because of homophobes who has a bias against gays.

So let’s take a look at some of the concerns.

1.	Polly said that I said I was the first gay school board member and she didn’t think that was correct. She is right. It isn’t correct, because that is not what I said. I am the first gay person in the country to win a seat on an elementary school board. I was also the very first gay person to be elected to a school board below college level in California.

Someone said where is the verification. I am not sure what verification you need, however you can verify what I said from a book called Out for Office which was published by the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund.

If there other things that you need to be verified let me know and I will provide that.

Someone said that being the first gay school board member, why is that so significant? Please refer to the Wikipedia page for Harvey Milk. He served in office less than a year before he was killed by a homophobe. He was elected to the city council of that city. As the Wikipedia page says he was elected as the first gay man in California. I have served on a school board for over 20 years. Are you saying that a gay person who served less than a year is more important than a gay person who has served for over 20?

So how can I appeal the decision to have me removed? Please respond to rosevillegarymiller@yahoo.com


 * I'd say, that given that he is the first gay man elected to the position, he just might be notable, so keep. I've contacted him and asked him if he would like some assistance with Wikipedia, perhaps with some better writing sense he'll form the page better. Irbisgreif (talk) 22:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

As I have said before, I am willing to take any legit suggestions for change. I dont want page deleted because of homophobia. If it is legit, fine. But the process...one has to have a doctorate to figure all this out. Not written for average Joes like me. I probably wont be able to do anything about this until Mon. So if it gets deleted, I will probably give up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmillerkc (talk • contribs) 11:57, 31 July 2009 (UTC)


 * it has nothing to do with being worthy. It has to do with being appropriate for an Encyclopedia. Milk was mayor of SF, and all the mayors of SF have articles here. DGG (talk) 19:38, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually Milk was only on the Board of Supervisors, but he was generally known as the "Mayor of Castro Street", so I can understand how you got that idea. Accounting4Taste: talk 20:01, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm actually fairly offended that Miller implies that people who vote delete are doing so out of bias. I voted delete and I don't care if he is gay or not. However, his whole appeal is based on his sexual orientation. If he were straight (or his sexual orientation were a private matter), he'd be just as non-notable to me as he is now. This niche carving about "first gay this or that" doesn't help anyone. It just serves to divide everything further. First below college level? Why do we have to sub-divide further. And only in CA? Another sub-division to try to shoehorn this in. Do we need an article for every gay man or woman that gets to be first in every political sub-division and each office in it? That whole appaeal and the reasoning of some editors here makes me think that the idea of trying to keep someone based on sexual orientation, not based on their accomplishments, is every bit as present as the bias against it he alleges. Why is sexual orientation a factor in determining notability? If this man were not gay, would we even have a single keep vote on this? Niteshift36 (talk) 05:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Gary, I hope this helps - The editorial community here has criteria to decide broadly, what should be included and what should not. In most cases it's not that hard to decide, and we follow those criteria. Some of them are that we need certain kinds of sources to write from - users will assess and form a judgement if they feel we have appropriate sources. We also have a whole host of inclusion criteria, which you can read here. These roughly say that we want articles on things that are inherently notable, and have proved it by attracting significant amounts of actual purposeful notice from unconnected people. Being "the first" of something isn't necessarily meaningful - someone might be the first black councillor in Smallville OR, someone might be first person to do 50 pressups in 30 seconds. We look for a genuine level of notability. That's a judgment collectively formed. In your case, where are the major newspapers not connected with your town or local region who have written editorials and profiles on you specifically? Where are the evidences that people with credibility (well known journalists, authors or analysts) who have no special reason to care about you and aren't themselves closely connected to you or your activities, have found your life and career important to write about? Where are the evidences of interest that you didn't and couldn't have influenced to be written, but got written anyway because some unconnected writer with few or no common interests felt that a paying public would wish to read about you in preference to 100,000 other local politicians or gay activists? That's what this discussion is about, and that is the sort of thing people here are assessing and looking for. Not just "first person of  to be in ", however important that is to you. Wikipedia is not a collection of indiscriminate facts - we are selective, like any encyclopedia, and that means only a small proportion of minor politicians etc are ever likely to meet those criteria. Apologies, but so far we're not seeing a strong case for considering your life an exception, however much it may have done good locally and for your chosen causes (which nobody here is discussing or opposing). FT2 (Talk 03:35, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Strong delete (1) There are no sources for the statements in the article, meaning it is not a wiki article. (2) The statement that he is the first homosexual school board member is not true, although he may be the first to publicise it. (3) Being a school board member, homosexual, communist or jihadist is not notable, nor is it being a politician. (4) Wiki has NEVER, in my experience, been anything other than ultra-liberal, politically speaking. The idea of it being homophobic - and the author's accusations that that may be the reason for going against this article - are both laughable and rather indecorously 'playing a card.'--Fiskeharrison (talk) 23:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.