Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gary Terzian


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy deleted by User:Malik Shabazz, CSD G7: One author who has requested deletion or blanked the page. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 19:15, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Gary Terzian

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The sources in the article either don't pass Identifying reliable sources or don't provide significant coverage of the subject, and I couldn't find anything online, so I don't think the subject passes WP:BASIC. Also, I don't think that the competition win and the TV appearances are enough to satisfy WP:MUSICBIO. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 05:32, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
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 * Keep I disagree with Mr.Stradivarius's conclusion. The article is being continuously updated/corrected/edited and more external references are being added which also refer to the TV music competition "Pêle Mêle" which served to discover lebanese talents, that's where Gary Terzian won the first prize in 1968. Indirectly answering Mr.Stradivarius's concerns, the competition was not just a TV appearance. It was a national competition equivalent to the American Idol at that time. This and other information along with the references that have been added in the article, satisfy the requirements of articles 8, 9 and 12 of the Criteria for musicians and ensembles, articles 2 and 6 of the Criteria for composers and lyricists and articles 1 and 4 for composers and performers outside mass media traditions. It should be taken into consideration that the article refers to history from the sixties and seventies where there was no internet and global communication networks. The geographical context of the events has also it's particularities. It is normal that the references or sources cannot be as exhaustive and precise as for recent musical events. I strongly suggest to keep the article on Gary Terzian and remove it from from the list of articles being considered for deletion.Silk road star (talk) 00:19, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Silk road star: As you are even a more newcomer here than myself I feel I can tell you this: If you created an article which looks like not so necessary to others maybe you should just stay away and see what other people think. I am not saying that you don't have a right to defend your work; without doubt you do. Perhaps because I am an old-fashioned guy I believe one should try to listen to others' opinions first to be able to make a sound decision and have a more complete idea, especially on his/her own deeds. This comment does not include any POV for or against the article. Best. --E4024 (talk) 21:49, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Automatic Strikeout  ( T  •  C ) 01:20, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

 
 * Delete. A brief search for proper sources came out blank, apart from self-published stuff. The article is way too self-promotional. If the author likes, maybe an admin would be kind enough to move it back into his userspace for him/her to fix up. ~dee  ( talk? ) 20:25, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Please specify which source came out blank so that it can be corrected. I checked the sources. They don't come out blank. Silk road star (talk) 21:37, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 01:29, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete. I performed a search and ultimately I was unable to show where Terzian passes WP:MUSBIO. I couldn't find any news reports, book mentions, or the like that would show that he is ultimately notable. Of the sources on the article, none are usable to show notability. He seems to somewhat prolific while alive, but being busy isn't notability in and of itself. There is mention of him winning an award on a TV show, but not every award is so overwhelmingly notable that it'd give notability in and of itself. There is mention of one of his songs getting played once on New Year's Day, but that's not national rotation. It was played once. To qualify for this level of notability for musicians, it'd have to be in rotation along the lines of "Call Me Maybe" or similar. Since Silk road star is new, I'm giving a rundown of the sources:
 * The first three sources are for a book that doesn't appear to be of the type of source that Wikipedia would consider usable in showing notability. Not every book published is usable as a reliable source.
 * Links 4 and 5 go to SoundCloud. Anyone can upload things to SoundCloud, so this wouldn't show notability. Even if the clips were uploaded by the people who owned the rights to the performances, helping to coordinate performances or recordings does not guarantee notability. Coverage of Terzian performing in these roles would show notability, but this coverage doesn't exist.
 * This link, like many of the other links on the article, goes to YouTube. It looks like a random posting of one of his recordings on YT. That's not usable as a reliable source or even as a link in general because of how dubious the copyright is in this circumstance. FYI, never link to anything that isn't posted by the person who owns the rights to it.
 * This doesn't even mention Terzian. Even if it did, this wouldn't show notability.
 * There are links to merchant sites such as Amazon for albums that Terzian put out or otherwise contributed to. Making albums does not guarantee notability. Merchant sites are unusable as reliable sources in any context. The albums exist, but existing is not notability.
 * There are multiple links to pages that do not mention Terzian at all and are about people or things he worked with. Notability is WP:NOTINHERITED by him working with, around, or being otherwise associated with notable people, places, or things.
 * One of the links is to a blog. Blogs are almost never usable as a reliable source unless the blog was written by someone who is considered to be an absolute authority on the subject. Less than 1% of bloggers have this level of reliability.
 * This is pretty much the summary of the sources in a nutshell. None of them are usable and to be honest, it doesn't help that the entire article is written in a very promotional and non-neutral tone. The guy just isn't notable. Most musicians fall under the radar when it comes to mainstream attention. I have no problem with this getting userfied, but I would encourage the editor to solicit help from WikiProject Musicians.Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   01:54, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete Looking back at this after original discussions on the article talk page, it does now have page references to the Shamelikian Boghos book which is likely to be closest to something that may be a reliable source. But overall, all I am seeing is a memorial biography of someone who was clearly a working musician, in hotels, as a sideman, in a couple of bands with other people who went on to prominent careers. It is well short on the convincing sources which are really needed, not least for the credibility of Wikipedia if it is to carry articles describing someone as a genius in the very first line. Fails WP:MUSICBIO. AllyD (talk) 19:59, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Some of the criticism written above by several members can be technically contested but still it will not make it a full-proof article. I will not go through it. So, I am asking for a speedy deletion, a withdrawal of the article because it cannot be further developed for the time being. If there is a possibility of keeping the article I will continue working on it. I am the main contributor of the article. Thanks Silk road star (talk) 02:21, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Withdraw The biography is yet incomplete but correct for what is already in the article, as I spent a lot of time and energy interviewing people, contacting people overseas who new the subject who is a worthy composer and musician, in order to gather information about him. In view of his historical and geographical circumstances, as I am actually realizing, the subject does not have his due coverage on the internet and it is impossible for me to find enough verifiable sources for the time being on the internet for each statement, as required by wikipedia, although this can change in the future as is the case for example with the recently published book by Boghos Shahmelikian.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.